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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2003-08 > 1060982414


From: Nathaniel Taylor <>
Subject: Re: King's kinsfolk: Robert II, King of Scotland...
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 21:20:14 GMT
References: <2f.3d9ae7d6.2c6da9bb@aol.com>


In article <>, wrote:

[Nat Taylor earlier wrote:]

> > I suppose, to cross every I and dot every T with any two figures calling
> > each other cousin, should one not also investigate the ahnentafels of
> > their then-spouses, to see if there be a possible 'cousin by marriage'
> > tie? Or would this definitely *not* be grounds for such terms of
> > kinship to be applied in the 13th-14th century?

> As I understand it, this would not be necessary (in the present instance)
> for two reasons:
>
> "... King
> Edward I carefully distinguished when he was
> addressing people related only to his wife. "
>
> 2. In addition to the relationship indicated between
> Richard de Burgh (d. 1326) and Kings Edward I and II,
> we also have Edward III addressing King Robert II
> of Scots (d. 1390), great-nephew of Richard de
> Burgh, as "our cousin" in 1373 (see Douglas
> Richardson, first post in this thread).
>
> It appears quite certain that, unless we are dealing with multiple
> unknown relationships to the Angevin kings of England, there is a common (and
> not overly remote) ancestor between Richard de Burgh and Robert II of Scots on
> one side, and the English kings on the other.

I continue to advocate a broad and systematic approach to this promising
kinship question. One point to emphasize is that, even if consanguinity
to Edward's wife can be ruled out, still the apparent hole in the Burgh
of Ulster ancestry could be matched to ANY chronologically acceptable
person in the ancestry of Edward I: not just a royal bastard in his
paternal line. So, are there ANY OTHER people ancestral or collateral
to Edward I who might plausibly have been able to furnish a daughter who
married a Burgh? Does she HAVE to have been a Plantagenet bastard: how
about a legitimate or illegitimate daughter, or first or second cousin,
of ANY ONE of Edward's great-grandparents or great-great-grandparents?
To be sure, many of these candidates were not in Britain so perhaps we
can rule them out; but can we be sure that this Burgh bride could not
have been of continental origin?

Nat Taylor

http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/

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