GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Archives

Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2003-08 > 1061314382


From: Tim Powys-Lybbe <>
Subject: Re: King's kinsfolk: Robert II, King of Scotland...
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 18:33:02 +0100
References: <1c9.dd8ccd8.2c6d7b55@aol.com>


In message <>
wrote:

> Thursday, 14 August, 2003
>
>
> Dear Nat,
>
> As per your request.
>
> Cheers,
>
> John

Thanks for this; it has provided some extensions to my files.

>
> _________________________
>
>
> 1 Richard de Burgh. Richard died bef 29 Jul 1326 in Athassel.
> Occupation: Earl of Ulster 1271-1326.
>
> 3rd Earl of Ulster

2nd earl?

>
> abt 1280 Richard married Margaret de Guines.
>

<big snip>

> 22 William de Braose. William died in Sep 1211 in Corbeil, France.
> Buried in Abbe St-Victoire, Paris.
> Occupation: lord of Brecon.
>
> of Bramber, Sussex
> lord of Braose [Briouze], Normandy, of Abergavenny and Brecon;
> lord of Limerick, in Ireland
>
> received Kington, co. Hereford before 1195 (Sanders, p. 57)
>
> acquired Tetbury, co. Glocs. :
> ' ...Tetbury was granted to William de Breuse
> [Glos RO D566/T1/1; cf Rot. Cur. Reg. (Rec. Com.) ii 177],
> possibly on his marriage* to Maud de St Valery, and was
> confiscated in 1208 after his quarrel with King John.'
> [*I can only think VCH should have said "in consequence of his
> marriage", not "on his marriage", as that marriage must have
> taken place long before c.1191] ' - C. Phillips
>
> supporter of King John - captured Arthur of Brittany at Mirebeau,
> 1 Aug 1202
>
> received grant of Gower in recognition of his services
>
> suspicions raised against him; ca. 1208 he fled the King's will in
> fear (his wife and son captured, imprisoned and allegedly starved
> to death)
>
> William married Maud de St. Valery.
>
> 23 Maud de St. Valery. Maud died in 1210.
>
> probably had Tetbury, co. Glocs. as her maritagium (subsequently
> granted to her husband William de Braose, most likely ' in
> consequence of her marriage' - C. Phillips )
>
> captured by royal forces in pursuit of her husband; held to have
> been starved to death (together with son William) by order of
> King John, 1210

I can't find any reference to connect Maud to No 46. Can you assist?
<snip>

> 46 Bernard de St. Valery. Bernard died ca 1191.
>
> of Tetbury, co. Glocs., Studley, co. Bucks., and Beckley and Horton,
> co. Oxon.
>
> in 1166-7 he paid a fine for livery of Beckley and Horton [his father
> then already being deceased]
>
> made gifts of land to Oseney Abbey, 1182-1189
> called Reginald in other sources (possible confusion with his son)
>
> ' In 1186 he was one of the signatories to the delimitation of the
> county of Amiens, acknowledging that he held Saint-Valery as a
> fief of Philip Augustus of France.' DD, p. 698, citing RRAN III,
> no. 329
>
> cf. VCH Gloucestershire 11:264 as to tenure of Tetbury
>
> Bernard married Maud.
>

<snip>

> 63 Aoife [Eva] ingen Diarmaid. Aoife [Eva] died ca 1189.
>
> 'Evam Dermicii filiam', Annales Hiberniae, A.D. 1171
>
> heiress of Leinster

Eva was not an heiress in the classical sense, though she indeed
inherited great possessions. She had brothers with issue (CP X, 356,
note (a) ).

> Styled Countess of Ireland, 1185; Countess of Striguil, 1186


> 80 NN.
>
> father, name unknown
>
> NN married Emma de Lacy.
>
> 81 Emma de Lacy.
>
> identified as daughter of Walter de Lacy by T. Powys-Lybbe
> (citing DNB)

I have found a few other books since then, notably Keats-Rohan's
"Domesday Descendants", Sanders' "English Baronies" and Wightman's "The
Lacy Family" and then Chris Phillips has done some real research on the
matter.

The upshot is that it is no longer certain that Emma was the Lacy
parent of Gilbert: it might have been her brother Roger (K-R, DP, 404)
it might have been anyone.

<final snip>

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

This thread: