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From: "Chris & Tom Tinney, Sr." <>
Subject: Re: Medieval genealogy origins compared with written contemporarydocuments and archaeological evidence.
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 11:44:50 -0700
References: <000401c35665$5d21fce0$0d45f8c1@AnnieMobileUnit> <010901c356b3$d8772ed0$25a5869f@janeteavhviak4> <3f29543b.118580365@news.mindspring.com> <3F50E6B8.7070106@dcn.org> <3F4ECB0C.3030707@interfold.com> <3F56118E.9090702@dcn.org> <3F56BE33.6080502@interfold.com>
In-Reply-To: <3F56BE33.6080502@interfold.com>


Todd A. Farmerie wrote:
. . .
Only historical evidence of the specific individuals
named in the pedigree itself validly support it.
> taf

---------------------------------
BRIEF REPLY:
Historical evidence related to specific individuals
must be based upon exhaustive, preliminary studies.
Myles Dillon, The Cycles of the Kings, copyright 1946,
lists Labraid Loingsech, as King of Leinster in the
third century B.C., hero of The Destruction of Dinn Rig.
His notes on page 4 state:
"1 The Annals of Tigernach place the episode between
the reign of Perdiccas of Macedonia and the death of
Ezechias, king of Judaea, that is, towards the close
of the eighth century B.C. (RC 16, 378), but record
another tradition which would place Labraid at the
close of the third century B.C. (ib, 394)."

Using the History of Ireland as a general guide:
http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/T100054/
Section 28, p.157- Volume 2

Ughaine Mor . . . held the sovereignty of Ireland
thirty years, or according to others forty years.
He was called Ughaine Mor, as his reign was great,
since he held sway over the islands of western Europe;
and this Ughaine had twenty-five children, namely
twenty-two sons and three daughters. When these
children grew up, each of them had a special retinue;
and when they went on free circuit round Ireland,
where one of the sons stayed at night, another son
stayed on the morrow. Thus they went on in succession,
so that wherever they directed their steps they
exhausted all the food and provisions in the district.
And when the men of Ireland observed this, they went
to complain of this injury to Ughaine, the king.
And it was mutually agreed on to divide Ireland
into twenty-five parts, and to give each of these
children his own part, and not to permit any one
of them to be a burden to another's portion. . . .

And it was according to these divisions that rents
and duties used to be paid to every king who reigned
in Ireland for three hundred years, that is, from the
time of Ughaine to the time of the provincials who
lived when Eochaidh Feidlioch was king of Ireland,
. . .
[RESEARCH NOTE: A study of road systems in Celtic
Ireland and elsewhere validates the historical nature
of this report. "I am of the opinion that we have
to assume that, given the almost perfectly identical
use of the carpat/carpentum on the Continent, in
Britain and in Ireland (KARL&STIFTER 2002) and the
mostly similar road system in all three mentioned
areas, not only a strong technical similarity existed
within this wider central and western European area,
but that also the legislation in regard to roads
and traffic were mostly similar." . . .
http://homepage.tinet.ie/~archaeology/road.htm
"clearly demonstrate the existence of chariots in
Ireland in the Iron Age."
http://homepage.tinet.ie/~archaeology/chariot.htm
Ugaine Mor is only historical within the framework of
the Celtic Chariot, of iron, not bronze age construction;
as well as for improved road networks for regional
conquests, as noted by the 500 B.C. to A.D. 800
time frame.]

It was Eochaidh Feidhlioch who divided the provinces
of Ireland amongst the following. He gave the province
of Ulster to Fearghus son of Leide; he gave the province
of Leinster to Rossa son of Fearghus Fairrge; he gave
the two provinces of Munster to Tighearnach Teidbheannach
son of Luchta, and to Deaghaidh son of Sin; similarly he
gave the province of Connaught to three, namely, to Fidhic
son of Feig, to Eochaidh Allad, and to Tinne son of
Connraidh, as we shall hereafter set forth when we are
treating of Eochaidh Feidhleach's own reign. . . .

History of Ireland
Section 29, p.163- Volume 2

Maon, the son of Oilill Aine, . . . The child
proceeded to Corca Dhuibhne, where he resided
for a time with Scoiriath, who was king of that
country, and thence went to France with a party
of nine, though some seanchas say that it was to
the country of Armenia he went. And the party
who accompanied him declared that he was heir
to the kingdom of Ireland; and from this it came
to pass that the king of the French made him leader
of his household guards; and he became very successful,
and so was much talked about, and his fame was great
in Ireland; and consequently many Irishmen followed
him to France. And he remained there a long time
of his life.

[Myles Dillon, The Cycles of the Kings, copyright 1946,
. . .
He was Moen Ollam at first, Labraid Moen afterwards.
And Labraid Loingsech after he went into exile (longais),
when he established a kingdom as far as the Ictian Sea,
{2} . . .]

History of Ireland
Section 29, p.165- Volume 2

Labhraidh Loingseach son of Oilill Aine, son of
Laoghaire Lorc, son of Ughaine Mor of the race
of Eireamhon, held the sovereignty of Ireland ten years;
and he fell by Meilge son of Cobhthach Caol mBreagh.
And the way in which he was allured from France to
Ireland was . . . and when his followers and Craiftine
had heard this, they besought the king of the French
to give him an auxiliary force so that he might go
and regain his own territory; and the king gave him
a fleetful, that is, two thousand two hundred,
and they put out to sea; . . .

The NON oral records indicate that within the time
frame of circa 400 B.C. to A.D. 100, there was an
Ireland wide establishment of Royalty rule, lasting
circa 300 years, followed by violent internal and
cross channel warfare including the British Isles
and Gaul (France).
These are historically related to:

A. [We are told by Caesar himself:
"... Among them [the Suessiones], even within living
memory, Diviciacus had been king, the most powerful
man in the whole of Gaul, who had exercised sovereignty
alike over a great part of these districts, and even
over Britain. ..." (Caesar De Bello Gallico ii.4)
The coins now known as Gallo-Belgic C, issued between
c.90 and 60 BC, have been tentatively identified with
King Diviciacus of the Suessiones.

B. "One of the petty kings of the nation, [Ireland]
driven out by internal faction, had been received by
Agricola, who detained him under the semblance of
friendship till he could make use of him."

This resulted in the complete change in the divisions
of land in Ireland and internal defense systems, that
effectively resulted in the deterrence of Roman forces
from invading and conquering Ireland as a whole.

History of Ireland
Section 31, p.185- Volume 2
And this Eochaidh Feidhlioch it was who first divided
Ireland into provinces and instituted provincials.
For he divided the province of Connaught into three
parts, between three, namely, Fidheac son of Feig,
Eochaidh Allad, Tinne son of Connraidh. . . . so that
he brought all Ireland under his own sway and rule
during his reign. . . . Tinne son of Connraidh,
however, the third king, consented to Eochaidh's
having the site of a fortress. Eochaidh gave his
own daughter Meadhbh to wife to Tinne; and they
formed a friendly alliance with one another.
Eochaidh Feidhlioch inquired of his druids where
he should build the fortress; . . . The fort was
then begun by the Gamhanruidh from Iorrus Domhnann;
and they made the rampart of that fort of Eochaidh
in one day, as the poet says:
1. He enjoined on the tribe of Domhnann, in one day
To make and shape the rampart; . . .
A residence was then built within it; and Eochaidh
gave the kingdom of Connaught to Tinne son of Connraidh,
and gave him his own daughter, Meadhbh, in marriage.
. . . Meadhbh continued for a long time afterwards
to be the wife of Tinne son of Connraidh, till he fell
at Tara by the hand of Monuidhir, who was called
Mac Ceacht. Now Meadhbh held for ten years the
sovereignty of Connaught after Tinne . . .

The tribe of Domhnann, in one day made and shaped
the rampart, indicating an ancient military Corps
of Engineers existing in Ireland, equal in capacity
to the Roman professional corps of engineers. . . .
This same instinct for precision gave Rome an army
whose strict discipline, unique for armies of the
time, made it master of the Western world [EXCEPT
FOR ANCIENT IRELAND].
. . .
The greatest part of our knowledge regarding Roman
surveying instruments—along with information about
a wealth of other ancient technology—comes from the
writings of Marcus Vitruvius Pollio in the first
century B.C. Among other topics, he discussed
surveying in his 10 surviving books on architecture.
http://www.memagazine.org/contents/current/features/feroman/feroman.html

In Ireland, there was the combination of druids
determining the location of the fort structure
and a tribe designated to construct the building.
In comparison, in about 20 B.C., the Temple of Herod
was begun, [Josephus, Antiquities], with all of the
cut stones and other materials previously gathered
into on site locations, (making the Temple Mount in
size circa 40 acres, or twice the size of the Forum
in Rome), using thousands of workers, along with Jewish
priests skilled in the art of wood and cement work.
Ancient masonry in Ireland involved this combination
of workmanship, with the druids directing tribal builders.

Respectfully yours,

Tom Tinney, Sr.
Who's Who in America, Millennium Edition [54th] - on
Who's Who In Genealogy and Heraldry, [both editions]
The Genealogy and Family History Internet Web Directory
http://www.academic-genealogy.com/
has recently been updated. It contains over 5,000 quality
listings, connecting to hundreds of thousands of related
links that lead to billions of database records.


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