GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2003-09 > 1063418742
From: "Sutliff" <>
Subject: Re: Some odds and ends
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:05:42 -0700
References: <email@example.com> <firstname.lastname@example.org>
FWIW Piers [VII] Legh of Lyme was born 1479 and died 4 December 1541. His
wife was Margaret Tyldesley who survived and was supposedly daughter of
Nicholas Tyldesley of Lancashire. As Piers VIII was born 1514, Margaret's
birth is necessarily before 1490.
John Lunn's _The Tyldesleys of Lancashire: The Rise and Fall of A Great
Patrician Family_ (Altrincham: St. Ann's Press, 1966) makes an exhaustive
search of the Lancashire Tyldesley Family and covers the various branches at
Wicheves, Wardley, Morleys, Myerscough, Tyldesleyhurst, Stansacre, Orford
and Garratt. Margaret Tyldesley, wife of Piers, is not identified among any
of the families.
However, Thurstan Tyldesley of Wardley, Knight for the Shire  was
executor of Piers' estate. Thurstan was born by 1495 and was eldest son of
Thomas Tyldesley of Tyldesley and Wardley Hall by his wife Anne, daughter of
Sir Alexander (or William) Radcliffe of Ordsall (HOP III : 497). There
may be something in J. B. Waton's Master's Thesis "Lancashire Gentry
1529-1558" (University of London, 1959), p. 517.
There was a 14th Century Nicholas in the Tyldesley family, but it seems to
be a name unused by the 15th Century Family. So Margaret's father may have
been other than a Nicholas or she may have come from another Tyldesley
family, perhaps the Shropshire Family.
"Sutliff" <> wrote in message
> I have been unsubscribed for a bit so did not know of this post. I would
> point out that the ancestry of Petronell Chudleigh (as pointed out by Todd
> Farmerie) is not as shown in GBR500 or AR7 and she remains unplaced in the
> Chudleigh family. The pedigree also probably places too much emphasis on
> some very dubious ancestry (Moyle, for example, a William Harry Watts in
> 15th Century?) given by Vivian. I also have my doubts of some of the
> I believe Rons should be Rous (#61) and Carnewe (#801) should be
> I have my doubts about the supposed father of Margaret Tyldesley #47 as I
> cannot locate any Nicholas of this period while the executor of Piers'
> estate was another Tyldesley of Lancashire. I cannot find my Tyldesley
> at the moment to cite more.
> #371 could possibly be N. N. Freckleton
> The Spurway ancestry of Juliana (#9) is found partially in Vivian and HOP.
> Her grandfather being Geoffrey Lewis, Mayor of Exeter.
> I used to have a descent from Oliver, but amputated it owing to an
> unsatisfactory 19th century female Beckwith ancestor whose placement has
> left me uncertain dissatisfied until I can prove the link. I tend to err
> the side of caution rather than claiming ancestry which I cannot
> satisfactorily document. As such I have no Royal Descents and if that is
> what it is, that's okay by me.
> Henry Sutliff
> "John Brandon" <> wrote in message
> > Some items noted in passing--
> > MUNDY, ancestral to Oliver1 Manwaring of Connecticut:
> > John Dobson's ancestor table for the immigrant Oliver Manwaring
> > doesn't give any ancestors for #124, Sir John Mundy, Lord Mayor of
> > London in the early 1500s. Yet there is a pedigree in Nicholls'
> > _Leicestershire_, vol. 4, part 2, p. 525* giving nine generations of
> > his paternal Mundy line. Is this known to be incorrect?
> > http://cybrary.uwinnipeg.ca/people/Dobson/genealogy/AT/view_AT.cfm?ID=29
> > ..................
> > Ancestry of Sir Hugh FENNE, Treasurer of the Household
> > On June 12, Jeffrey Gibson asked about the wife and parents of Sir
> > Hugh Fenne (d. 1476), whose daughter married George Neville, Lord
> > Abergavenny. In July, I posted information showing that Fenne's wife
> > was named Eleanor, and that she was buried in St. Bartholomew's
> > Priory, in West Smithfield. The following source also states this:
> > John Venn, _Annals of A Clerical Family_ (London, 1904), chart
> > opposite p. 213 [citing "Anthony Norris, Herald's College (I. 9, 89; 6
> > D. 14; Vincent, 119, p. 463), etc."]--
> > 1. Hugh Fenne, of Yorkshire, slain in the Civil Contest in the reign
> > of Richard II., and lost his lands in Yorkshire. = ....
> > 2. Hugh Fenne, came to Bocking, Essex, and had lands in Braintree, as
> > by his will appears. = ....
> > 3. Hugh Fenne, of Braintree = ....
> > 4. Sir Hugh Fenne, Knt. Treasure of the Household to Henry VI. =
> > Eleanor ..., buried in St. Bartholomew's Priory.
> > 5. Margaret Fenne, da. and h. d. 1483. = Sir Geo. Neville, Lord
> > Abergavenny, killed at Tewkesbury.
> > ..................
> > Connections of John1 GROSVENOR of Roxbury, Mass.
> > In June, I pointed out a personal Act of Parliament in the 1660's
> > allowing one Leicester Grosvenor to sell lands to pay debts, and noted
> > that this may be same man as Leicester Grosvenor, brother of the
> > immigrant John1 Grosvenor of Roxbury, Mass. (the New England family
> > used the name "Leicester" frequently).
> > NEHGR, 72:138, shows that the immigrant's brother, Leicester Grosvenor
> > (b. ca. 1627, d. 1690), "married, probably about 1652, ELEANOR
> > EASTWICKE (or ESTWICKE), who was buried in the parish of St. Leonard,
> > Bridgnorth, 26 Nov. 1708, eldest daughter of Christopher and Eleanor
> > (Walden) of Stoke, co. Warwick, Eleanor Walden being daughter of Isaac
> > of Coventry, co. Warwick."
> > James C. Brandow, comp., _Genealogies of Barbados Families, From
> > Caribbeana and The Journal of the Barbados Museum and Historical
> > Society_ (Baltimore: GPC, 1983), p. 232 ("Estwick of Barbados"), shows
> > that Christopher and Eleanor (Walden) Estwick of Stoke, Warwickshire,
> > had a daughter "Eleanor, wife of Leicester Grosvenor of Bridgenorth in
> > 1656. She was 21 on 23 Feb. 1646; signed deed of 1 May 1647; living
> > 1689." The chart shows that her brother Christopher Estwick was an
> > inhabitant of Barbados, as were two of her uncles and an aunt (Richard
> > Estwick, Henry Estwick, and Anne [Estwick] Woolfe). The West Indies
> > connections of Eleanor Estwicke were not mentioned in the NEHGR
> > article, and seem to make the proposed Grosvenor ancestry more likely.