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From: (Douglas Richardson)
Subject: Joan of the Tower - not Joanna of Woodstock
Date: 28 Dec 2003 22:47:24 -0800

Dear Newsgroup ~

Some months ago, Henry "Hap" Sutliff posted a message (see copy below)
in which he listed the children of King Edward III and his wife,
Philippe of Hainault. At that time, Hap asserted that it was
"ludicrous" and "disrespectful" to suggest that "other authors and
historians who have published the correct information" may have made
mistakes. Actually historians and genealogists make mistakes all the
time, myself included.

A case in point is Hap's own list. The third child he lists for King
Edward III is a daughter named Joanna of Woodstock. My research
indicates that King Edward III's daughter was actually known as Joan
of the Tower, not Joanna of Woodstock. Joan's correct name is
recorded in Calendar of Patent Rolls, 1345–1348 (1903), pg. 430:

"… his [i.e., the king's] daughter, Joan de la Tour"

Princess Joan was doubtless styled "of the Tower" from her place of
birth, the Tower of London. Joan subsequently died of the plague at
Bordeaux, France 2 Sept. 1348, en route to be married to Pedro, son
and heir of Alfonso XI, King of Castile and León.

Additional records of Joan of the Tower can be found in the following
sources:

Cal. Close Rolls, 1341–1343 (1902): 554.

Cal. Close Rolls, 1346–1349 (1905): 55–56, 426, 570, 590.

Cal. Patent Rolls, 1348–1350 (1905): 24, 26, 40, 343.

List of Diplomatic Docs., Scottish Docs. and Papal Bulls (PRO Lists
and Indexes 49) (1923): 13.

Cal. of Ancient Deeds—Series AS & WS (List & Index Soc. 158) (1979):
149 (W.S. 462).

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

E-mail:


From: "Sutliff" <>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Subject: Re: Correction on a Correction Re: Another CP Correction:
Margaret of Windsor, wife of John de Hastings, Ear
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:55:31 -0700

What Douglas Richardson has done is point out an error in CP. I hope
he is
not claiming this as a "discovery."

The identity of the children of Edward III by their birthplaces has
been a
fundamental part of the naming of these children and how historians
refer to
them. We know of the fourth son John less by his titles (Earl of
Richmond or
Duke of Lancaster) than by his birthplace (Gaunt). The 12 children
were
known as:

Edward of Woodstock
Isabella of Woodstock
Joanna of Woodstock
William of Hatfield
Lionel of Antwerp
John of Gaunt
Edmund of Langley
Blanche of the Tower
Mary of Waltham
Margaret of Windsor
William of Windsor
Thomas of Woodstock

Edward III's brother is frequently called John of Eltham, also his
birthplace.

These names are used in histories and biographies as far back as I
have
looked (at this point as far back as Agnes Strickland's Lives of the
Queens
of England in 1844). So any claim to anything beyond a correction to
CP
would not only be ludicrous, but disrespectful of other authors and
historians who have published the correct information.

Henry Sutliff


From: "Sutliff" <>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Subject: Re: Correction on a Correction Re: Another CP Correction:
Margaret of Windsor, wife of John de Hastings, Ear
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:55:31 -0700
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What Douglas Richardson has done is point out an error in CP. I hope
he is
not claiming this as a "discovery."

The identity of the children of Edward III by their birthplaces has
been a
fundamental part of the naming of these children and how historians
refer to
them. We know of the fourth son John less by his titles (Earl of
Richmond or
Duke of Lancaster) than by his birthplace (Gaunt). The 12 children
were
known as:

Edward of Woodstock
Isabella of Woodstock
Joanna of Woodstock
William of Hatfield
Lionel of Antwerp
John of Gaunt
Edmund of Langley
Blanche of the Tower
Mary of Waltham
Margaret of Windsor
William of Windsor
Thomas of Woodstock

Edward III's brother is frequently called John of Eltham, also his
birthplace.

These names are used in histories and biographies as far back as I
have
looked (at this point as far back as Agnes Strickland's Lives of the
Queens
of England in 1844). So any claim to anything beyond a correction to
CP
would not only be ludicrous, but disrespectful of other authors and
historians who have published the correct information.

Henry Sutliff

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