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From: "Chris Phillips" <>
Subject: Re: Joan / Constance Gray, wife of Richard Le Strange
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 10:51:24 -0000
References: <18e.2446285f.2d29eb81@aol.com>


James W Cummings wrote:
> I intend to attempt
> the same sort of thing with Grey of Wilton, Grey of Codnor and Grey of
Ruthin
> unless someone else beats me to it.

I worked out the immediate ancestors of what I thought would be the
prospective parents of Joan/Constance from these families a while ago
(although not covering as many generations as you have for the Stranges and
Greys of Heton).

Here are my attempts (mainly from the Complete Peerage):

CODNOR

Ancestry of a hypothetical daughter of Sir Richard (Grey), Lord Grey of
Codnor

(1) Daughter

(2) Sir Richard (Grey), Lord Grey of Codnor, b. 1371 or earlier, d.1418
(3) Elizabeth [daughter and coheir of Ralph (Basset), Lord Basset of
Sapcote], b.1372, m. before 1378

(4) Sir Henry de Grey, d. before 1392
(5) Joan [daughter of Reynold (de Cobham), Lord Cobham]
(6) Ralph (Basset), Lord Basset of Sapcote, b. before 1309, d.1377
(7) Alice [daughter of John Derby], d.1412

(8) Sir John (de Grey), Lord Grey of Codnor, d.1392
(9) Alice [daughter of Warin de Lisle], m 1330 or earlier
(10) Reynold (de Cobham), Lord Cobham, b.c.1295, d.1361
(11) Joan [daughter of Thomas (de Berkeley), Lord Berkeley], m. before 1348,
d.1369
(12) Simon Basset, d.1328
(13) Isabel [daughter of William (Boteler), Lord Boteler of Wem], m. before
1309, d. after 1328
(14) John Derby
(15) .....

[CP vol.2, pp.7,8 (Basset of Sapcote); vol.3, p.353 (Cobham of Sterborough);
vol.6, pp.125-129 (Grey of Codnor)]

RUTHIN

Ancestry of a hypothetical daughter of Reynold (Grey), Lord Grey of Ruthin

(1) Daughter

(2) Reynold (Grey), Lord Grey of Ruthin, b.c.1362, m 2ndly 1404 or later,
d.1440
(3) (1st wife) Margaret [daughter of Sir Thomas (de Ros), Lord Ros], m. 1378
or shortly after;

(4) Reynold (de Grey), Lord Grey of Ruthin, b. about 1319, d.1388
(5) Alianore, m. 1360 or later, d.1396
(6) Sir Thomas (de Ros), Lord Ros, b.1336/7, d.1384
(7) Beatrice [daughter of Ralph (de Stafford), Earl of Stafford], m. lic.
1358/9, d.1415

(8) Sir Roger (de Grey), Lord Grey of Ruthin, d.1352/3
(9) Elizabeth [daughter and in her issue heir of Sir John (de Hastinges),
Lord Hastinges] [v.14:m.1311 or earlier]
(10) John (Lestrange), Lord Strange of Blackmere
(11) Ankaret [daughter of William Boteler of Wem]
(12) William (de Ros), Lord Ros, d.1342/3
(13) Margery [daughter of Bartholomew (de Badlesmere), Lord Badlesmere],
b.c.1306, m. before 1316, d.1363
(14) Ralph (de Stafford), Earl of Stafford, b.1301, m 1stly prob. abt
1326-7, d.1372
(15) Margaret [daughter of Hugh (de Audley), Earl of Gloucester], m. 1336 or
earlier, d. 1347/8 or later

[CP vol.6, pp.151-158 (Grey of Ruthin); vol.11, pp.98-101 (Ros); vol.12, pt
1, pp.174-177 (Stafford);
pp.343,344 (Strange of Blackmere); pp.353,354 (Strange of Knockin);
corrections to Grey of Ruthin in vol. 14]

WILTON

Ancestry of a hypothetical daughter of Henry (Grey), Lord Grey of Wilton

(1) Daughter

(2) Henry (Grey), Lord Grey of Wilton, b.1340 or earlier, d.1396
(3) Elizabeth [daughter, it is said, if Sir Gilbert (Talbot), Lord Talbot],
m.1379/80 or earlier, d.1401/2

(4) Reynold (Grey), Lord Grey of Wilton, b.1311, d.1370
(5) Maud [daughter, it is said, of Sir John de Botetourt, of Weoley, co.
Worcester], m. 1327/8 or earlier, d.1391
[vol.14 corrects this to - apparently da of Sir Richard de la Vache - though
chronologically it looks possible that Sir Richard could have been her
maternal grandfather]
(6) [?] Sir Gilbert (Talbot), Lord Talbot, b.c.1332, m. 2ndly 1379 or
earlier, d.1387
(7) [?] Pernel [daughter of James (Butler), Earl of Ormond] m. 1352 or
earlier, said to have d.1368

(8) Henry (de Grey), Lord Grey of Wilton, b.1281 or 1282, d.1342
(9) [it is said] Anne [daughter and heir of Ralph de Rockley]
(10) [?] [SEE ABOVE]
(11) [?] [SEE ABOVE]
(12) [?] Richard (Talbot), Lord Talbot, b.c.1305, d.1356
(13) [?] Elizabeth [daughter and coheir of John Comyn], m.1326 or 1326/7,
d.1372
(14) [?] James (Butler), Earl of Ormond, b.c.1305, d.1337/8
(15) [?] Eleanor [daughter of Humphrey (de Bohun), Earl of Hereford and
Essex], m.1327, d.1363

[CP vol.6, p.175-178 (Grey of Wilton); vol.10, pp.116-119 (Ormond); vol.12,
pt 1, pp.612-616 (Talbot)]

The Grey of Wilton pedigree is surprisingly full of holes, to the extent
that some uncertainty is indicated about 7 out of 8 great grandparents of
the hypothetical daughter. If "Lord le Grey" is really a baron, Grey of
Wilton looks likeliest. But I still think it's worth thinking about younger
sons and other Grey famlies, in case "Lord" is translating something less
than a baron.

Chris Phillips






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