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From: (marshall kirk)
Subject: Re: Fw: "Roman chronicles"
Date: 13 Jan 2004 15:01:44 -0800
References: <04de01c3d833$d34bae70$e454f8c1@AnnieMobileUnit> <QYBMb.9834$Ky6.5066@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>


Pretty much what I'd gathered, tho' presented in more detail (and by a
more recently informed source).----If Chris isn't heckled as much as
some here, it may have something to do with the fact that he's
generally recognized to be an intelligent, well-educated, judicious,
and scrupulous scholar, who quite consistently presents the
documentary evidence and logical reasoning on which his judgments
rest. (And I say so as a disinterested party, at least insofar as my
complete lack of prior dealings or even acquaintance with the fellow
would make it difficult to characterize me, here at any rate, as a
"shill" or a "flack" ... <g>)


"Chris Bennett" <> wrote in message news:<QYBMb.9834$>...
> ""AGeorgeSand"" <> wrote in message
> news:04de01c3d833$d34bae70$...
> > Just dropping by to say I do much better offlist without your phony
> inflatable expert cribbers, cheats and hecklers -
> >
> > but would like to make the point, that in fact, Nennius, one of Geoffrey
> of Monmouth's main (and better) sources, refers all his data for the lines
> from 1st king Britus/Brutus, to Aneas (and on to Noah's father Lamech- cited
> also in similar later pedigrees for Edw IV et al) - from the Roman
> Chronicles, - the very source used by Chris Bennet, who never gets
> heckled - and by his august source, the Octavian Society, for the respected
> Roman lines I was asking him to check ...
> >
> > These Chronicles are generally considered the closest thing to a real
> source covering the time period, so if you have a taste for early legendary
> lines, and a modicum of good sense to judge a legendary source for what it's
> worth - which is considerably more than certain diploma-ed ignorants on this
> list wish to allow...
>
> Well, hecklers who don't spell my name right aren't starting off from a
> position of strength! But, trust me, I've been heckled in my time here,
> just not recently. Probably because I'm not all that active here these
> days.
>
> I'm not sure what Mme Sand is referring to by "Roman chronicles" -- I don't
> know of any from the classical period mentioning Brutus or Noah -- but as it
> happens I have recently been looking into early Roman historiography for my
> own reasons. FWIW, what I have learnt, in summary, is as follows:
>
> -- Roman history began to be written by Q. Fabius Pictor during the Second
> Punic War. Detailed historical accounts of events before the First Punic
> War are liable to include increasing amounts of data that is of dubious
> reliability.
>
> -- One of the original primary sources was a set of annals maintained by the
> pontifex maximus. These annals appear to be the source, e.g., of the fasti
> consulares. Ancient tradition was that these were heavily damaged at the
> time of the Gallic sack of Rome in the early 4th century BC. They were
> maintained until about 130 BC, and subsequently lost or destroyed. When or
> by whom is controversial. The theory that seems most plausible to me is
> that this was done by Augustus after a suitaby "edited" account, also now
> lost, was created. Although they formed the base of republican chronology,
> they were not considered completely reliable by later chronographers --
> various editions of the fasti consulares start to diverge slightly before
> about 300 BC.
>
> In short, anything in the Roman historical tradition that is before the
> third century BC should be scrutinized, and anything before some time in the
> fifth needs to be looked at very, very carefully.
>
>
> A couple of interesting webpages to look at are:
> http://www.ualberta.ca/~csmackay/CLASS_365/Roman.Chronol.html and
> http://www.ucl.ac.uk/GrandLat/people/griffiths/collatin.htm
>
> A must-read book is B. W. Frier, Libri Annales Pontificorum Maximorum: The
> origins of the annalistic tradition 2nd edn (Ann Arbor, 1999)
>
> Regards
> Chris Bennett

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