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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2004-01 > 1074724544


From: Francisco Antonio Doria <>
Subject: Re: GATEWAY/MEDIEVAL/MIDDLE CLASSES...
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 19:35:47 -0300 (ART)
In-Reply-To: <80.3921f40.2d40565d@aol.com>



Peter,

My Acciaioli ancestors: the family began according to
tradition with a steel merchant turned banker in the
12th century. Simone Acciaioli who settled in the
Madeira was a wine merchant - like the early Russells,
I think.

I am descended (if those long lines are to be
trusted...) from Aleramo Doria, a banker and wealthy
merchant.

Strictly bourgeois, I guess...

chico

--- escreveu: >
>
> Dear All,
> I've been studying genealogy and Family history for
> the last 25 years or so -
> at one time it was on a professional basis, but
> later more for interest.
> I recently had a very interesting conversation with
> a member of the College
> of Heralds who happens to be married to a very close
> cousin (somehwat closer
> than Bush, first cousin once removed).
> He was bemoaning the fact that the english gentry
> had become so Middle Class.
> I ventured to say that the non hereditary title
> bearing 'Aristocracy' of
> England let alone Europe, was and is 'de facto' a
> Middle Class. Whilst the Gentry,
> or non hereditary title bearing Nobility, were more
> geared to the fixed idea
> of the service of the sword, The Bourgeoisie , that
> is the merchant classes
> of the European countries, chose Law and financial
> services to the crown - both
> were and are identical in the class system, yet both
> deride each other for
> their advocacy of one particular way of life, the
> burger v the countryman.
> A classic case in point for two families in my
> ambit:
> MEINERTZHAGEN - A cologne family whose filiation
> goes back to the 14th
> Century. From the 16th to the 18th Century, this
> family was the richest in the whole
> of Nothern Germany, owning the most Coalfields, the
> largest whaling fleet,
> the largest commercial fleet in Germany (426 ships)
> and owning some 185,000
> hectares of land , sitting on the councils of Bremen
> and Cologne until the
> beginning of the 19th Century, and yet only being
> declared 'noble' in 1612 despite
> having virtually 'ruled' the Councils of both cities
> for some 150 years and
> married amongst others into the Lippe-Biesterfelds.
> They were recognised as equals
> by many of the 'local' sovereigns and inter-married
> with many noble families
> of the area. The HRE patent of nobility recounted
> the 'noble services' that
> this family made to both cities and recognised it as
> having been noble from
> 1400. Yet the Meinertzhagens, still a major force in
> The City of London, have
> never regarded themselves anything more than Middle
> Class despite being related to
> the Great, the not so Great and the plain Mr
> Walters, erstwhile dustman of
> the Borough of Lambeth. They own and have owned
> large Country Estates, but keep
> their interests in the City.
> AIREBOUDOUSE, d' , FOLQUIER - Family of Ganges near
> Anduse, Languedoc. Proven
> filiation starts in the end of the 13th Century, and
> even then it married
> into the local 'nobility' . The reason for these
> marriages is shown clearly on
> the correspondence of the time (remarkable for a
> family to be so well documented
> depsite not being 'noble'), because the families did
> business together, were
> members of the local councils and had the same
> standing locally.
> By the end of the 16th Century, the Folquier
> d'Airebaudouse had amassed
> enough wealth to own 14 lordships, have 'Agences' in
> all the major French cities
> and loan money to the benighted Crown, yet they
> retained their belief in being
> 'Middle Class' or 'Bourgeois', especially when a
> particularly strident member
> of the family, a Protestant predicate, told his
> flock in a sermon that " La
> richesse et mon écu me donne la semblance d'être
> moins honnête que vous, mais je
> suis, comme vous, qu'un simple bourgeois qui vit
> dans un chateau, ou
> dirais-je, une ferme". The family eventually became
> titled, and reverted to Roman
> Catholicism, also ridding themselves of the rather
> 'bourgeois' patronymic of
> FOLQUIER by the end of the 17th Century, a name
> which had been a matter of Pridesome
> 50 years before.
> We did agree, reverting to my opening para, that The
> English Gentry, is and
> always has been Middle Class, as has the French
> 'Nobility' that does not carry
> a hereditary title.
> regards
> peter de Loriol
>

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