Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2004-03 > 1079396918

From: "~Ford~" <>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:33:32 -0600
References: <>

----- Original Message -----
From: "david hughes" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, 14 March, 2004 7:31 PM

> ITEM 1:


> A genealogical website on the internet,
>, says that Izyaslav II
> married first an un-named princess of Georgia; and married secondly an
> un-named Countess of Abazan. There must has been some discussion about
> this Countess of Abazan that I missed, for else why would Igor Sklar,
> , post on the soc.genealogy.medieval google
> newsgroup; dated 3 Dec. 2003; subject: Palaiologos Descents for John of
> Gaunt, saying: Sorry, I don't know where Abazan is. Perhaps you may
> help to improve my knowledge of ancient geography. I can't determine
> by the post who he was addressing this to.

'Abzan' could very well be a vernacularization of 'Abyssinia'; BUT, _vide

> W. H. Turton in his "Plantagenet Ancestry", note 75. Kief, quotes
> from "Geschichte des Russischen Staates", by Philipp Strahl, 3 vols.
> F. Perthes (1866), that the second wife of Izyaslav II was "an
> Abyssinian [Ethiopian] princess".

When I first read W. H. Turton in his "Plantagenet Ancestry", note 75, I had
assumed, (yes, I know what happens when one assumes), that this was a
perpetuation, or perhaps an extension, of the Greek susceptibility for
confusing Colchis and Abyssinia. Andromeda of Ethiopia was actually from
the Eastern end of the Euxine. This is why her son by Perseus, Persis, went
back to the land of his maternal grandfather, who, apparently, had no
surviving sons, the found the Persian state, according to certain Greek
myths. Purportedly, Darius was willing to allow to the
Argolids certain privileges, in recognition of this kindred. But read on...

> I e-mailed Igor Sklar in Russia
> about this, and he says that he believed Strahl meant "Abkhazia",
> which is an old name for Georgia. I reported this to Joseph Uphoff,
> , and he said that it is highly unlikely that
> Strahl could have made this mistake. I asked him about the similarity
> of the two names, and he said that in the Russian language there is no
> similarity in the two names, and that the etymologies of the two names
> are completely different. And, to support Joseph, I have an
> acquaintance, Murray Senkus, born in Ukraine, who reads and speaks
> Russian fluently who confirms Joseph's contention.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ITEM 2: It seems like all of the sources do not agree on the identity
> of the wife of Geza II of Hungary, (d. 1161). For example, W. H. Turton
> in his "Plantagenet Ancestry", page 26, gives the father of Geza II's
> wife Euphrosyne as Izyaslav II of Kiev by an unknown wife. A
> genealogical website on the internet,
>, gives the father
> of Geza II's wife Euphrosyne as Mstislav II Harold "the Great" of
> Kiev, who was Izyaslav II's father. And, the internet site
>, to
> be on the safe side gives alternative parentages for Euphrosyne: one,
> the dau of Mstislav II Harold of Kiev, and, the other, the dau. of
> Izyaslav II. Hence, there is some doubt of Euphrosyne's parentage.
> However, I think some sort of resolution can be made of this issue if
> we harmonize the conflicting genealogical data. Could it be possible
> that the confusion over Euphrosyne's parentage derives from Geza II
> having two wives both named Euphrosyne?; one, the daughter of
> Mstislav II, and, the other, the daughter of Izyaslav II. If this is
> true it would certainly account for the discrepancy over the parentage
> of Geza II's wife.

Or, it could be that of the unltimate Quellen-sources, one added, or deleted
an generation of Euphrosyne's fathers. Someone with expertise in these
fields should have little trouble, if they can get to the sources, and using
dates, to determine if the erroneous lineage has given us more than we want,
or has short-changed us.

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ITEM 3: Let us now address Izyaslav II's supposed Abyssinian [Ethiopian]
> wife. In order to remove the possible "taint" [not my word, I am
> quoting here from a 1950s book "Negro Blood in European Royalty"]

cf. the Hispanic _limpieza de sangre_.

> Strahl's Abyssinian princess has been reinvented and made into an
> Abkhazian [Georgian] princess and into an illusive Abazanian countess.

There it is, again! Those xany Abazanians!

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ITEM 4: The contemporary Abyssinian Emperor at this time in history
> was the famous Lalibela, who, accompanied by his sister, Qirwerne,
> traveled to the Holy Land and visited the Byzantine Emperor at
> Constantinople.

According to Abyssinian legend, Lalibela was transported to Jerusalem, by an
angel of the Lord, à la Mohammed.

> There at the imperial court he and his sister may have
> met Izyaslav II of Kiev who was visiting the emperor in the
> mid-twelfth century. A biography of Lalibela may be found on the
> internet.

Could one tell us where, please?

> There are also undocumented legends about him and his sister
> that probably are based on actual events. Everyone of these, without
> that I have read, says that his sister remained at the
> imperial court at Constantinople after Lalibela returned to Ethiopia.

Where, according to Ethiopian history, he had to put down an uprising, or
attempted _coup d'état_, spawned by his brother and sister. But, read on,
gentle reader.

> There she twice married, and had issue.

This part gets a little sticky. What source do we have for her remaining
behind, marrying, and leaving issue; let alone a second marriage?

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ITEM 5: The questions here are: whom did she marry?; and, who were, and
> came to be of her issue? This is conjecture, but it is my contention
> that she married firstly, Izyaslav II of Kiev, (d. 1154); and, upon
> returning to Constantinople, after his death, that she married, secondly,
> Andronikos Dukas Kamateros, (d. 1176), by whom she was the mother of
> Euphrosyne, (d. 1211), wife/empress of the Byzantine Emperor Alexius III,
> (d. 1210), which gives a "gateway" from Africa to Europe.

> I originally
> thought that Euphrosyne, wife/empress of the Byzantine Emperor Alexius
> III, was the daughter of Lalibela's sister because she is described as
> "swarthy", however, she could just as well have inherited her
> complexion from her mother which is more chronologically plausible.

How do these two scenarios differ? They both seem to be saying that
Euphrosyne is the daughter of Lalibela's sister?

> constructive comments welcome
> david hughes

Thank you, David, so much for sharing this fascinating find with us.
Lalibela, (1119-1159, or, [an older source*], 1172-1212), was a member of
the Zagwe dynasty. In 1189, the Sultan Saladin granted the Ethiopians the
right to establish their own church in Jerusalem. This is purportedly
because of his contact with Lalibela, on pilgrimage. The Zagwe, (some of
whom, according to Ethiopian sources, were practising Jews), were the
dynasty which conquered, and annexed to Abyssinia, the ancient empire of
Axum. Lalibela was brother's-son to Yemrahana Krestos, (1039-1079, or
1133-1172), which latter was the son of Marari/Mara Takla Haymanot,
(916-919, or 1117-1133).
I surmise that it is possible that Lalibela put down his brother and
sister, before he went on pilgrimage. I could not find a definite date for
either. Going far from his nation for what should have been a protracted
time, he took his rebellious sister with him, in order to keep an eye on
her; that the rebell sister was none other than Qirwerne. If this were the
case, what would have been more natural than for him to leave her in
Constantinople, out of troubles' way?
Also of interest may be the name of Lalibela's grandfather, 'Haymanot'.
This is a vernacularization of Hadrahmut, or Himyar, a kingdom in the South
of the Arabian peninsula, with which Axum and Abyssinia had had dealings,
and alliances for years. Perhaps Takla Haymanot's mother came thence?
Perhaps Takla Haymanot, himself, came from there to assimilate the Axumites?

Respectfully and sincerely,

* The earlier dating, (which was published much more recently), is from The later dating is from R. F.
Tapsell, _Monarchs, Rulers, Dynasties and Kingdoms of the World,
(Facts-on-File, New York and Oxford, 1983), p. 317. Host Kingdom gives a
much more complete list of rulers - e.g., he includes three (3) kings
between Mara Takla Haymanot, and Yemrehana Krestos; (Tatadim [919-959], Jan
Seyum [959-999], and Germa Seyum [999-1039]), Tapsell has none. Incidently,
the sobriquet, 'Krestos', may provide an indication of when the dynasty
converted. Both sources agree on the next two (2) kings; though not on
their dates. Host Kingdom continues the dynasty through Mairari,
[1247-1262], and Harbai, [1262-1270], to the conquest by the Solomonic
dynasty, out of Tigre and Shoa.

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