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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2004-04 > 1080962329


From: Don Stone <>
Subject: Re: Munderic, Lord of Vitry-en-Parthois b. ca. 500, killed 532
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 03:18:49 GMT
References: <5.1.1.6.2.20040312091304.0283b040@incoming.verizon.net> <000b01c4086f$3e1f7ea0$8a0c020a@MyNotbook> <qlQ6c.752$yA2.608@news1.dion.ne.jp> <406D6894.1000504@verizon.net> <c4k8p8$hpj$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr> <058801c418f5$79e32540$140d0043@hppav> <001401c41901$ec0f3da0$196f0044@tu.ok.cox.net>
In-Reply-To: <001401c41901$ec0f3da0$196f0044@tu.ok.cox.net>


Phil Moody wrote:
> Well said, Ford. I think a better question is - what evidence has caused
> Prof. Kelley to change his long standing position on this issue, and
> whether he has considered an alternative supposition concerning the
> identity of Munderic's spouse? I am curious to know why Prof. Kelley now
> believes Gundulf is two distinct individuals, and perhaps someone can
> contact him and see if he is willing to clarify his new position? I can
> appreciate his silence on the matter if he is considering publishing his
> new findings, but I would be grateful for clarification on this point as
> well.

I believe Prof. Kelley has a copy of Onomastique and Parente, and it could
well be that the material mentioned below is a factor in his new position.
I'll ask when I next communicate with him.

I don't think he is actively researching this cluster of people at present.

-- Don Stone

I wrote earlier:
> In yesterday's mail I received a package from Prof. Kelley including a
> brief comment on this. He says that he does not believe that Gundulf, son
> of Artemia, is identical with Gundulf, son of Munderic, and therefore no
> longer thinks that Artemia was Munderic's wife.
>
> In a message to soc.genealogy.medieval dated 2001-05-07, Christian
> Settipani said:
>
>> Arnulf is a son of Bodogisel according to texts of 9th c. The Vita
>> Gundulfi adds that he was the nephew of Gundulf, son of Munderic. This
>> Gundulf, (great-)uncle of Arnulf, could be the nephew of a first
>> Gundulf, son of Artemia, sister of Sacerdos, bishop of Lyons. For the
>> value of these late texts and the confirmations they have in reliable
>> sources, see now my paper in ' Onomastique and Parente ', p. 185-229.
>
> These relationships are diagrammed on p. 229, Tableau 10: Conclusion: Les
> ancêtres de Arnulf.


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