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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2004-05 > 1085160035


From: "siabair ~^~" <siabair@h=tmail.c=m>
Subject: Re: royal Irish gateways
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 18:20:35 +0100
References: <484756c1.0405171117.4656c9cc@posting.google.com> <10011fd7.0405201801.38e38575@posting.google.com>


Kevin Randolph Hearst wrote:
> Any thoughts on this descent line?

Much extraneous material snipped.

>> descent-line E: descent of Ailech kings to English kings
>>
>> 00. Niall Noigiallach
>> 00. Eogan
>> from whom descends
>> 01. Aedh Athlamhan
>> 02. Anrothan
>> 03. Niall [omitted in some mss.]

Omit.

>> 04. Aedh an Buirrche
>> 05. Dunsleve
>> 06. Farquhar (Ferchar)
>> 07. Malcolm
>> 08. Laumon (Laomainn) (Lamont)
>> 09. Malcolm...

The above generations are supported by WDH Sellar 'Family Origins in Cowall
and Knapdale', Scottish Studies, volume 15.

>> ..."Lyon" of Cowall, ancestor of the Lyon Family
[his older
>> bro was the ancestor of the Lamont Family; and, his younger bro was
>> the ancestor of another family]

WDH Sellar shows Malcolm as ancestor of the Lamont family, not his brother.

>> 10. John Lyon...

The above generation (but not the Lyon surname/epithet) is supported by a
fifteenth century Lamont pedigree preserved in O Clerys Book of Genealogies
(Analecta Hibernica 18, paragraph 306) and a variant fourteenth century
Lamont pedigree preserved in MS 1467. The generation below is where Burkes
Peerage online cuts off (ie: it doesn't bridge the gap from John below to
John above).
http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/Contents/book/scotland/FHP/Peerage/fhp-LYON(BOWES-EARLSOFSTRATHMOREANDKINGHORNE).asp

>> 11. John "The White Lyon", Thane of Glamis 1372 (d1382)...

And so on <snip valid descent to Elizabeth II>

According to http://www.yourscottishname.com/lamont_clan.htm

"Tradition, supported by a genealogical work of 1682 found in Inveraray
Castle, maintains that a son of Sir Laumon, had to flee Cowal as a result
of a murder; and founded the Lyons of Glamis"

This seems to refer to 09 Malcolm above, so it would appear that only
tradition and a late pedigree support the claimed descent of John the White
Lyon thane of Glamis from the Lamonts and through them from the kings of
Aileach. Given the generally unreliable nature of seventeenth/eighteenth
century Scottish traditional pedigrees (eg: the Dalriadic ancestry of the
MacDonalds, the kings of Man ancestry of the MacLeods and the Arthurian
ancestry of the Campbells) this looks to be yet another line not proven.

--
siabair (Old Irish) /shabba/ = 'ghost', 'phantom', 'spectre'


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