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From: Rosie Bevan <>
Subject: Re: Peter de Valognes/Peter de Valence/Piers de Valoins
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:37:09 +1200
References: <007901c44083$b1b8fac0$c3b4fea9@email><55712d2e.0405230457.15911a4a@posting.google.com><4fad4bf0.0405241723.6be22eda@posting.google.com><55712d2e.0405250325.7f9d3341@posting.google.com>


Dear John

Thanks for posting this descent. I've made some additional comments below.

At the time of the Domesday collation in 1086, Peter held the position of
sheriff of the counties of Essex and Hertfordshire, combined for the
purposes of administration by the Exchequer, and he farmed the boroughs of
Havering and Hertford. He had acted in the capacity of sheriff periodically
from about 1070-1076. Peter was granted lands in six counties
(Hertfordshire, Cambridgeshire, Norfolk, Suffolk, Essex and Lincolnshire),
the caput of which he made Benington, Hertfordshire, which had been the head
of the lordship of Aelmar, his disposessed Saxon predecessor. It included a
park for beasts of the chase, and here he, or his son, built a castle. There
is a hint in the Domesday Book to suggest that Peter may have profited by
the forfeiture of Ralph de Gael in Norfolk in 1075, which may explain why
although his caput was in Benington in Hertfordshire, his most valuable
lands were in Norfolk, the latter being a later grant.



Peter de Valoines and Albreda had another son called William, and he appears
to have been their son and heir but died during the life of his father
without issue. He appears in the foundation charter of Binham priory before
his brother Roger.

Peter de Valoines appears to have had two daughters. Muriel, married first
possibly Theodoric, brother of Walter the Deacon [DP 427]. Theodoric appears
as a tenant of Peter de Valoines at Domesday in Saxlingham, Norfolk and may
be the same as Theoderic Pointel in Witham, Essex as appears in the Domesday
Book. (Grimbald who attested the Binham charter of Peter de Valoines
[Monasticon Anglicanum, v. 3, p.345] was possibly the same who was tenant
of Theoderic Pointel in Domesday Essex [DD 1080]). By her first husband,
Muriel had a son William de Bacton, (also identifiable as 'William filio
Theodoric', signatory to the Binham charter), who sold his inheritance of 13
knights' fees given by and held of Everard, bishop of Norwich to his uncle
Roger de Valoines. This was later (1156-62) confirmed to Robert, son of
Roger de Valoines by a royal charter by Henry II, witnessed by Philip de
Valoines, Henry de Essex, the elder, and Henry de Essex, the younger at
Rouen [Barbara Dodwell (ed), 'The Charters of Norwich Cathedral Priory',
(Pipe Roll Society, 1974), part 1, no. 79]. Muriel married secondly Hubert
de Munchensy (Monte Caniso) as his second wife [DP 257], a benefactor of
Eye, Thetford and Colne priories, by whom she had Roger, Geoffrey and Hugh
[CP IX p.412 notes (b) and (c]. Widowed before 1120, Muriel later became a
nun at Thetford priory of which she had been a benefactor by granting land
in Rushworth, part of her marriage portion, when her son Hugh was made a
monk there. The grant was confirmed by William de Bacheton, Roger de
Monchensey, her brother Roger de Valoines and by his son Piers [Farrer HKF 3
393].


The other daughter is unnamed but identified by Keats-Rohan as wife of
Alfred or Alured of Attleborough, co-sheriff in Essex between 1101-1112, for
the reason that Adam son of Alfred [DD 863/864], is named as grandson of
Peter de Valognes, and gave land in Besthorpe to Wymondham priory. Adam had
a brother called Roger. Yseldis, granddaughter of Alfred, also gave land in
Besthorpe, in the soke of Buckenham near Attleborough [DP 140].

You have for Christine that her heir was Walter fitz Robert. This is not
accurate for anything which passed from her mother Gunnor de Valoines.
Tenements held in dower by Gundred widow of Peter de Valoines II in
Dersingham, Norfolk, had been awarded to Walter fitz Robert on Christine's
death, either mistakenly or collusively, but in 1234 Christian's heirs,
brought a suit against Walter in the curia regis, which they won because the
lands had descended via Gunnor de Valoines, and Walter was son of Robert
fitz Walter by another wife, " Postea coram domino rege apud Westmonasterium
factum est judicium. Quia predicta terra descendit eidem Cristiane de
predicto Roberto avo suo ex parte matris et iste Walterus est frater ipsius
Cristiane tantum ex parte patris ex altera uxore..."[CRR XV no.1432].

It is possible that Roger de Valoines and Agnes had another daughter named
Christina who is listed amongst the abbesses of Barking and was buried
there, "Dame Christine de Valoyns gist en mylieu del chapitre en le pere du
marbre." [Monasticon Anglicanum, v.1 p.441]. Alice, sister of Agnes wife of
Roger de Valoines, is known to have been a former abbess there in 1137.

Cheers

Rosie



----- Original Message -----
From: "John Ravilious" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: Peter de Valognes/Peter de Valence/Piers de Valoins


> Tuesday, 25 May, 2004
>
>
> Hello Doug,
>
> Thanks for the kind words, and those additions.
>
> Is there any indication in the Munchensy account (DD) whether the
> issue of Hubert II de Munchensy were by Muriel de Valoins?
>
> Thanks for those references.
>
> Cheers,
>
> John
>
>
>
> (Doug Smith) wrote in message
news:<>...
> > Hi John
> >
> > Wonderful summary. Possible additions to children of Piers de Valoines:
> >
> > 1. Muriel who married William de Bachetone and Hubert II de Munchensey.
> >
> > DP I, pps 256-257, DD, pps 294, 757-760. CP IX: 411-413.
> >
> > 2. nn who married Alfred of Attleborough.
> >
> > DP I, p 140, HKF p 393, DD, p863.
> >
> > 3. William
> >
> > According to DD it appears Piers had two brothers as well.
> >
> >
> > Doug Smith
>
>

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