Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2004-07 > 1089886344

From: Francisco Antonio Doria <>
Subject: Re: Jesus
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:12:24 -0300 (ART)
In-Reply-To: <>

Dear Martin,

This definitely is far from my current interests, but
let me stress why I said that. It was in the 60s, when
Joel Carmichael published his book _The Death of
Jesus_, which plagiarizes Robert Eisler's ideas. I was
in the late teens, into the zen/religion thing (it was
the 60s) and avidly read Carmichael's piece.

I then went out to check all of Carmichael's
arguments. Some of them fail (he mentions ``pais tou
theou'' - child/servant of God - while the quote is in
fact huios tou theou - Son of God), but there were a
few quite intriguing one, like the unmarried rabbi
thing - a possibility, but an aberration - plus
Yehoshua bar Abba, which is unexplained in ordinary
exegesis, and finally the Josephus interpolation. I
went there and looked for myself - it's an obvious
interpolation, the whole reference.

I'm not saying that Jesus never existed; on the
contrary, what I'm saying is that the historical Jesus
was an amalgam of several historical individuals.


--- "Martin E. Hollick" <> escreveu: >
That is not quite true. The interpolation as you
> put it, was not by
> Josephus, who does mention Jesus, but by the
> medieval monks who upon
> reading the manuscripts added things like "Son of
> God" and "Messiah, "
> etc. and thus today we cannot be really sure what
> Josephus actually
> had to say on the subject.
> However, for historical evidence you need to account
> for the gospels
> and Paul's Letters themselves as historical
> documents. The Book of
> Mark was written about 60 BCE and Paul's Letters
> date from the 50s
> BCE. Not to include these documents as historical
> evidence would be
> as narrow-minded as believing they are the words of
> God. The truth
> lies somewhere in between, wouldn't you say?
> (Francisco
> Antonio Doria) wrote in message
> > No, there is no historical evidence; just an
> > interpolation in Josephus, IIRR - an obvious one,
> btw.
> > I think that we deal with Him through a composite
> of
> > several figures, and the contradiction I've
> pointed
> > out - a rabbi who is single - might arise from
> that
> > fact.
> >
> > This is just conjecture, let me add.
> >
> > fa
> >

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