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From: (Roger Pearse)
Subject: Re: Jesus
Date: 17 Jul 2004 11:48:35 -0700
References: <1e2.255590ce.2e26e482@aol.com> <20040714194956.31395.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> <ac1a3786.0407150822.83f9817@posting.google.com> <acf48a55.0407170653.2d37bc6f@posting.google.com>


I'm hope no-one in this group is misled into supposing Dirk Hartog is
posting honestly here? He has been over this ground very many times,
been told the facts more times than I can count, and refused to
listen. The characteristic atheist ploy of making endless demands
for proof of things even sensible atheists know, in order to weary or
confuse the honest, is particularly evident in this post.

(Dirk Hartog) wrote in message news:<>...
> > Josephus' reference to the death of
> > St. James, "the brother of Jesus, the so-called Christ."
>
> That confirms exactly what it says -- that by the end of the century
> there were Christians around who called Jesus the Christ.

Inability to read noted.

> >As I mention
> > in another post the interpolation in Josephus, the Testimonium
> > Flavianum as it is called, very probably existed in an uninterpolated
> > form.
>
> One reason the TF is recognized as a fraud is that no Church Father
> knew about it until the fourth century -- when Eusebius alone knows of
> it -- then it takes another century or two for everyone else to find
> out about it:

Dirk has been told better many, many times. No scholar considers this
evidence whatever on the subject. Few people indeed quote at all from
the second half of Antiquities.

Modern scholars generally consider this passage genuine but corrupt.

> And there's good reason to believe Eusebius is it's actual author:

This smear is believed by no-one except atheists. Only a single
(atheist) scholar cares to take any notice of it. The reference to a
retired professor of German, G.A.Wells, tells its own story.

> > There is more than enough historical evidence for the existence
> > of a Jewish teacher or "rabbi" named Jesus, who was crucified by
> > Pontius Pilate, and whose followers became the first members of the
> > Christian religion.
>
> Interesting theory. Can you list please the evidence you have in mind...

No-one owes the obtuse an education.

> ---------------------
> I don't care what you believe.

Lie #1. Dirk only posts to abuse Christians.

> I care what the evidence is.

Lie #2. As with all Dirk's posts, this one consists of finding
reasons to ignore the evidence and substitute demands for proof. I
have yet to see the slightest sign of evidence in any of his posts.

> I care about the reasoning you use to justify your beliefs.

Lie #3. Dirk couldn't care less, as might be seen from above.
Demanding other people work ever harder to prove the obvious is
something the stupidest atheist can do.

> It is not morally acceptable to say ... our story is truth but yours
> is myth; ours is history but yours is a lie. It is even less morally
> acceptable to ... manufactur[e] defensive or protective strategies
> that apply only to one's own story.
> [John Crossan, The Birth of Christianity, 1998, pg 28 - 29]

From a net-bigot like Dirk, such an accusation is the sheerest
hypocrisy.

But don't take my word for it: use google and look at his posts.

All the best,

Roger Pearse


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