Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2004-09 > 1094605486

Subject: Re: Savile of Thornhill and Copley: a Plantagenet descent
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 21:04:55 EDT

Dear John,

Here is the Fitzwilliam documentation I promised earlier.

Sir Brian de Thornhill (1298-1369) married Joan Fitzwilliam (ca. 1320-Feb.
22, 1382/3).
They were married before 1347.

Nottinghamshire Archives: Savile of Rufford: Deeds and Estate Papers

Catalogue Ref. 157 DD/SR

FILE [no title] - ref. DD/SR/26/61 - date: 21 Edw III [1347-8]
[from Scope and Content] Quitclaim by Richard son of Thomas de
Popilwell' in favour of Sir Brian de Thornehill' knight and Lady Joan his wife of his
claim to lands and tenements in the fee of Gomersal' (Gomersall, Yk) which he
had previously granted to Brian and Joan, and also to an annual rent of 12d
from lands there.

Joan was the daughter of Isabel D'Eincourt(?) and Sir William Fitzwilliam.

Baildon & the Baildons by William Paley Baildon, Chapter Eleven - The
Fitzwilliams of Emley and Sprotborough, page 355:

1348 July 25 - Will of Isabel, widow of Sir William Fitzwilliam of Emley. To
be buried in the chapel of St. Thomas the Martyr at Sprotborough. Mentions her
sons: Sir John and Thomas, and her daughters Margaret, Joan, Isabel and
Agnes. Sir William Deyncourt and Sir John Deyncourt, her Godson [filiolus].
Executors her son Sir John FitzWilliam, Sir William Trussebut and Sir Brian de
Thornhill. [Testamenta Ebor. Vol. 1, No. 50]

Thoroton, Antiquities of Nottinghamshire, Vol. III, page 135: [sub Plumptre
and Normanton]

There was a fine levied, 18 Edward II, between William, son of William, Quer.
and Edmund, parson of the church of Plumtre, deforc. of the manor of Plumtre,
with the Appurtenances, and the advowson of the church of the same manor,
whereby it was settled on the said William Fitz-William, and the heirs of his
body; Remainder to John son of the said William and the heirs male of his;
Remainder to Thomas, brother of John in like fort; Remainder to Joan, sister of
Thomas, and the heirs male of her body; Remainder to Agnes, and to Isabel, her
sisters respectively in the same manner; remainder to the right heirs of the said

Reference: WWM/D/26,27

Creation dates: 27 Dec 1324

Extent and Form: Two copies

Scope and Content
To William Fitzwilliam and Isabel, his wife, to levy a fine to Edmund

In the manor of Emeleye, held of the King, as of his manor of Wakefield; and
his manor of Darthington, held of the King as of his Honour of Pontefract, as
the King is informed by Inquisition made by Simon de Grymmesby, escheator for
the counties of York, Westmoreland, Northumberland and Cumberland.

To be to the use of William and Isabella. On default of a male heir, then to
the use of John Fitzwilliam, and thereafter to specified uses.

The consideration is to be 12 marks.

At Nottingham, 27 December, 1324

Seal: Great Seal of King Edward II

Obverse: King enthroned in majesty: open crown of three points fleury,
sceptre ensigned with dove and branch. Throne of elaborate tabernacle work, with
back, rising sides, and front pieces adorned with arcading. Foot board, or
corbel, ornamented with foliage and rings. Under foot, two small lions couchant
guardant; and, at each side of the throne, lion leaping up towards the king.


Reverse: Equestrian, King on horse to right, in haubert of chain mail with
crown, surcoat, spur, broad sword elevated and shield or arms of England.
Bardings of neck and flank of horse charged with same arms reversed.


Round, red wax.

11 Edward II [1317-1318] Fine. Middlesex. William fil William de Emeleye
grants to Edmund Deincourt 1 messuage, 312 acres, 3 roods of land, 1 acre, 3 roods
of meadow and 21s. 4d. rent in Elmton for his life; remainder to Hamon de
Masci and Joan his wife; remainder to Isabella fil Edmund fil John Deincourt.

William son of William to settle the manors of Emley and Darrington on
himself, Isabel his wife, and the heirs of their bodies with successive remainders
to John, son of William, Thomas, his brother, and the heirs male of their
bodies, remainder to the heirs of William, son of William, retaining the manors of
Dalton and Sprotbrough, co. York and Plumtree and Hucknall, co. Nottingham.
Dated 17 Edward II [1324].

Reference: WWM/D/34

Creation dates: 20 Nov 1345

Scope and Content
John Fitzwilliam of Emlay, knight, to William Frankys de Cateby and John de

Confirming a grant made by his mother, Isabella de Emlay, of 20 acres of land
and a third part of one toft, with appurtenances, in Sprotburgh and Cateby.

Witnesses: John de Raddeklyf, parson of the Church of Sprotburgh, Hugh de
Sandall, Thomas de Huntyngfeld, William de Estfeld.

At Sprotburgh, Sunday after the octave of St Martin in winter (11 November)

Seal: armorial, shield, 6 lozenges.

Round, 3 cms. red, only centre part remaining, on tag.

Reference: WWM/D/32

Creation dates: 9 Mar 1344
Language: French

Scope and Content
Thomas Flemyngs of Clifton to John Fitzwilliam, of all burdens, dues and
services due in his 3 weekly court for the manor of Wath.

For a red rose at the Nativity of St John the Baptist (24 June).

Witnesses: Bryan de Thornhill, William de Fyncheden, Elis de Bryton, John de
Dranfeld, John de Wodehall de Wath.

At Emley, Sunday before St Gregory (12 March), 1343/4.

The above show that Isabel D'Eincourt married Sir William FitzWilliam between
1317 and before 17 December 1324. As John Fitzwilliam came into the lands in
Darthyngton, Emley and Sprotborough, it is apparent that there was no male
issue of the second marriage. It is significant that the executors of the will
of Isabel D'Eincourt were her stepson John Fitzwilliam, Brian de Thornhill who
married her daughter Joan, and William Trussebut.

As to the birth date of Joan Fitzwilliam we know that she was married before
1347 to Sir Brian de Thornhill. From the ages of her children Margaret, who
married Sir Gerard de Ufflete [see below] and Simon de Thornhill who we have
recorded in documents as early as 1369 [see original post] they were probably
born 1340-1350. The marriage settlement for Margaret gives us a date of
1357-1358 but many of these settlements occurred when the children were adolescents
which is no indication of the age of the parents.

Reference: DD/SR/209/124
Creation dates: 1357 - 1358

Scope and Content
Chirograph: Marriage settlement - Henry de Nuhill clerk to Brian of Thornhill
on marriage of Gerald son of Gerard de Ufflet and Margaret daughter of Brian,
lands etc in Swanland and Ufflet.

Joan died in 1382/3 and had her first children 1340-1350 it would appear that
she was born no earlier than 1320. As for the following document:

Baildon & the Baildons by William Paley Baildon, Chapter Eleven - The
Fitzwilliams of Emley and Sprotborough, page 354:

1327 Sir William FitzWilliam of Hemeley, John his son and Brian de Thornhill,
fled for the death of Sir Richard Plaiz, killed at Helaw. [Exchequer K.R.
Misc., bundle 904 No. 1]

Joan Fitzwilliam may have been married to Sir Brian de Thornhill as a child
[at least age 7].
It is obvious from the fine cited in Thoroton that all the Fitzwilliam
children were born before 1324-1325 when the fine above was recorded.

If Isabel D'Eincourt were the mother of Joan Fitzwilliam then there would be
a line to Henry I through her mother Isabel de Mohun.

Henry I
Robert de Caen de Mellent
Maud Fitzrobert of Gloucester
Hugh de Keveliock, Earl of Chester
Agnes le Meschines
William de Ferrers
Isabel de Ferrers
Isabel de Mohun
Isabel D'Eincourt

There is no documentation showing Joan Fitzwilliam to be the child of anyone
but Isabel D'Eincourt and chronologically it is very probable that she was her


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