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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2004-10 > 1099011764


From: Francisco Antonio Doria <>
Subject: Re: More on King's Kinsfolk
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:02:50 -0300 (ART)
In-Reply-To: <nathanieltaylor-F27A2D.19552227102004@news1.east.earthlink.net>


Not to start another silly discussion, but this word -
parentela - exists with the above described meaning in
Portuguese today. I even used it in a meeting I
attended this morning, btw.

I think it also exists in Spanish, and in a closely
related form, in Italian.

fa

--- Nathaniel Taylor <>
escreveu:
> In article
> <>,
> (Douglas
> Richardson) wrote:
>
> > The search turned up 164 references to the term,
> "king's kinswoman,"
> > and two references to women who were identified as
> "parentela"
> > (relative) to the king.
>
> For someone who doesn't know Latin, this is an
> honest mistake, derived
> from the misleading syntactical context of the
> abstracts, where the word
> 'relative' or 'relatives' is used as equivalent to
> the more complex
> Latin phrases quoted in the abstracts and below.
>
> But 'parentela' means 'kin-group' or 'kindred', not
> 'relative'; it
> refers to a group of people, not to an individual as
> a relative. This
> is obvious from the Latin phrases quoted in the
> abstracts on two of the
> three pages in this searchable collection where this
> word appears:
>
> Richard II vol. 4 p. 228:
>
> 'que de parentela nostra existit' ['who is of our
> kindred']
>
> Edward III vol. 10, p. 636:
>
> 'plures de parentela sua' ['many from among his
> kindred']
>
> (In the third hit--Edward III vol. 9 p. 235--the
> Latin word is used
> alone, offering less of a clue as to its true role
> in the syntax of the
> English-language abstract. Curiously, searching the
> word 'parentela'
> only yields these three hits in the entire
> collection, of which only
> one, not two, refers to a woman [the first one
> above]; perhaps the
> keyword indexing is flawed and Doug noted its
> appearance on another page
> which the word-index missed.)
>
> Nevertheless, I think Doug's search here is
> interesting, and *suggests*
> that the pattern of identification of king's kin in
> the patent rolls is
> consistent enough (within five degrees) to use as
> evidence to place
> those so designated for whom the term is used but
> the relation is
> unknown. A while ago we asked Doug to do some
> systematic checking on
> this, and he has: bravo.
>
> As for the method, it will be important to
> supplement the search to
> other incidences in the CPRs which don't appear
> exactly as "king's
> kinswoman" in the abstract. For example, what about
> the men?
>
> Nat Taylor
>
> a genealogist's sketchbook:
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/
>
>





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