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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2004-11 > 1100551729


From: "Clagett, Brice" <>
Subject: Throckmorton/Berkeley
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 15:48:52 -0500


Muriel Berkeley, daughter of Thomas, 5th Lord Berkeley of the second
creation, married, allegedly in 1527, Sir Robert Throckmorton (1512-
1581), of Coughton Court, Warwickshire. In his _Lives of the Berkeleys_
2:231, John Smyth of Nibley says that Muriel "was a lady of a small
stature, lived long and virtuously; and saw ere she died descended from
herself 220 persons, as I have very credibly been informed by such as
undertook to recount them, many of whom now follow." He goes on to
name five children for Muriel, 24 grandchildren, and 69
great-grandchild-
ren; the last count is clearly not complete, but is near enough so that
it is hard to see how Muriel's descendants for three generations could
total 220.

More fundamentally, it is clear that Muriel could not have seen any of
her descendants other than her own children. While she presum-
ably did live virtuously, she did not live "long." Sir Robert's epitaph
at
Coughton (published in Dugdale's _Warwickshire_ p. 755 and in C.
Wickliffe Throckmorton's _The Throckmorton Family_ p. 125) shows
that Sir Robert married (2) Elizabeth (Hussey) Hungerford and had
seven more children by her. I have seen Sir Robert's second marriage
dated to 1542, which cannot be far off. (Anne Throckmorton, one of the
daughters of that marriage, married Sir William Catesby in 1566. Their
son Robert was, of course, the mastermind of the Gunpowder Plot.)

As has often been noted, Smyth of Nibley is usually very accurate, and
particularly where, as here, he is dealing with events not far removed
from his own time and within the personal ken of people he knew. His
statement about Muriel is a most puzzling lapse, and I am unable to
account for it.

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