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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2005-07 > 1122560530


From: "Ginny Wagner" <>
Subject: RE: Rohese, wife of Sir Richard de Lucy, Chief Justiciar of England
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:22:10 -0500
In-Reply-To: <1122535195.126691.220750@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Doug said:
<As a priest, he would have had no wife. >

Ginny responded:

Thank you, Doug, for your response to my question. It certainly sounds like
you are very busy handling the book signings and mailings which makes your
participation here on the list even more remarkable.

Ralph Flambard is quite well known as not just a bishop of Durham but as
having 'relations' with Christina of Markyate's aunt and then wishing to
enjoy Christina's favors. And of course, there is the famous story of
Abelard and Heloise with the explanation that they married secretly so that
he could advance in position within the Church -- not that it was illegal --
just frowned upon.

In the 12c, prior to Becket, particularly in England, the appointments to
these powerful positions were more or less by the king rather than results
of piety and adherence to the Word and it would seem that since the
appointments were coming from a secular source these men very well could
have wives prior to the appointments. My ancestor was, in fact, a secular
master prior to being appointed by Henry I though the Gesta says he was
elected as abbot there is really no mention of him in the Gesta as prior or
monk before he appeared in 1119 as elected abbot; the network of kinship
throughout the abbacies and bishoprics is mind-boggling in the twelfth
century as evidenced by reading the Charters from the times.

I've read that the fact that marriage kept appearing and reappearing at
councils meant that it took a long time for doctrinal theory to become
widely practiced.

Thus, although you are quite correct in theory, I'm not willing to accept a
blanket statement of fact about the 12c that no priests were married;
although, in this case you may very well be correct. I'm sure that once you
(or someone else) find the documentation that Rohese was sister or
half-sister to Faramus, we'll all be a bit more knowledgeable. Thank you
once again for your attention. I appreciate your time. ;-) Ginny


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