Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2005-07 > 1122572383

From: "Douglas Richardson " <>
Subject: Re: Rohese, wife of Sir Richard de Lucy, Chief Justiciar of England
Date: 28 Jul 2005 10:39:43 -0700
References: <> <>
In-Reply-To: <>

Dear Ginny ~

Thank you for your good post.

Yes, Walter de Lucy, Abbot of Battle Abbey, was the brother of Sir
Richard de Lucy. Walter and Richard almost certainly had another
brother, Robert de Lucy, of Essex, and a sister, Margaret de Lucy, wife
of William de Chesney (or Cheyne).

I've copied below a charter of William de Chesney which names his wife,
Margaret de Lucy. The use of Margaret's maiden name in this charter
indicates she came from a prominent family. A sister of the Chief
Justiciar of England would fall in that category. Elsewhere, I find
William de Chesney and Richard de Lucy are associated together in the
records of this period.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah


+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Charter of William de Chesney (or Cheyne).
Date: Probably 1159-1163. No ancient endorsement.

Tag for seal. Size: 5-5/8 x 3-1/8 inches. Texts: MS-Orig.
Dij/83/2/35. R168.

Grant by William de Chesney to Philip son of William of ten acres of
his demesne in Marston St. Lawrence, Northamptonshire for a yearly
render of Northampton gloves. At Verneuil.

"Willelmus de Caisneto omnibus hominibus et amicis suis Francis et
Anglis tam presentibus quam [future]is salutem. Notum sit uobis me
dedisse et concessisse et hac carta mea confirmasse Philippo filio
Willelmo decem acras de dominio meo in Merstona iuxta croftam sancti
Ebrulfi Tenendas sibi et heredibus suis in feodo et hereditate de me et
de meis heredibus per quasdem chirotechas de Norhamtonia inde michi
annuatim reddendo ad festum sancti Michaelis pro omni seruicio.
Testibus Margareta de Luci uxore mea. Radulfo [de] Caisneto et
Willelmo fratre suo nepotibus meis. Milone de Langetot' et Milone
filio suo. [Johanne filio] Gis'll. Rogero filio Hamelini. Roberto
clerico. Willelmo de parco. Rainnulfo hostiario. Rogero coco.
Ricardo de Mandeuilla. Osberto pistore. Apud Vernolium." [Reference:
C.W. Foster, ed. The Registrum Antiquissimum of the Cathedral Church of
Lincoln (1935): 239-240].

"Ginny Wagner" wrote:
> Doug,
> Thank you for the link to Rose de Dover. Isn't it great when the title line
> gives so much information? I know you are very busy right now but, can you
> easily verify that Walter Lucy, abbot of Battle Abbey was a brother of
> Richard and of Robert -- or maybe Robert was their father?
> A Robert Lucy is mentioned in Dom David Knowles' The Monastic Order in
> England, page 187 footnoted as from Chron. Bell. 65 as being introduced to
> the royal circle in Henry I time by his kinsman, Abbot Geoffrey de Gorham of
> St. Albans Abbey.
> He also mentions on page 277-9 that Walter de Lucy, abbot of Battle from
> 1139 - 1171 was a brother of Richard Lucy, the celebrated justicar of Henry
> II accompanied by a moving story of Walter's death and his brother Richard's
> compassion.
> Knowles says on page 278 that Walter was originally a monk of Lonle who "had
> for some time been living with abbot Geoffrey of St. Albans, a relative, and
> through him and through his brother, Richard, had become persona grata with
> the king and the court circle" which is also footnoted Chron. Bell. 65.
> It would be great to know just what they meant by "kin" back in the twelfth
> century! Thanks for any help you can give. Much appreciated. ;-) Ginny

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