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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2005-08 > 1123374306


From: "Peter Stewart" <>
Subject: Re: Henry of Poitou, Abbot of Peterborough 1127-
Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 00:25:06 GMT
References: <1e.4a9d180c.3023ad22@aol.com> <1123200317.130180.322710@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <1123201219.480115.182770@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <42f3e964@news.ColoState.EDU> <03b701c59a13$2b0aee80$0300a8c0@Toshiba> <dd14ti$f6o$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu> <Y_YIe.73167$oJ.44007@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <1123368221.491522.179890@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


<> wrote in message
news:...
> Peter Stewart wrote: "We are told by the chronicler of Saint-Maixent
> that William married Philippa
> in 1094, and with the later report of the birth of his two sons (his
> namesake & heir, and Raimond of Antioch) we are told that "he also had
> five
> daughters by the aforesaid wife, one of whom [Agnes, as noted above]
> was
> married to the viscount of Thouars" (ex supradicta conjuge habuit
> quoque
> quinque filias, quarum unam desponsavit vicecomiti Toarcensi)."
>
> Thank you for this information, Mr. Stewart. Is there any mention made
> of the birthdate of the younger son, Raymond, later prince of Antioch?
> It seems to me that he was probably born 1105 or thereabouts.

Yes, that would be a reasonable assumption, especially if Vajay was right
about Agnes being born in mid-1103, since we are told that Raimond was the
youngest of seven children from a marriage that had taken place in 1094. The
relevant passage (that can be found through the link I posted earlier, on p.
419) is under 1099 as follows:

"Willelmo comiti natus est filius, equivoce Guillelmus vocatus. Ex
supradicta conjuge habuit quoque quinque filias, quarum unam desponsavit
vicecomiti Toarcensi. Novissime genuit apud Tholosam uterinum, videlicet
Raimundum, qui postea regnavit in Antiochia." (A son was born to Count
William, named William like himself. From the aforesaid wife he had also
five daughters, one of whom was married to the viscount of Thouars. Youngest
among the Tolosan brood he fathered was of course Raimond, who later ruled
in Antioch).

Philippa was daughter of the count of Toulouse - however, according to
Verdon's translation into French the last sentence means "Finally he had a
son born at Toulouse...". Given his name from the comital family of
Toulouse, it's perfectly plausible that Raimond was actually born there, but
the words can be taken either way. The elder son William was by-named "the
Tolosan".

Peter Stewart


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