GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Archives

Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2005-08 > 1125485073


From:
Subject: Re: King's Kinsfolk: Richard II's kinsman, Edmund Staffiord
Date: 31 Aug 2005 03:44:33 -0700
References: <24.77748beb.30462757@aol.com> <1125438210.610225.203430@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1125439642.999679.53150@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1125478113.706227.54440@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <1125478113.706227.54440@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>


>> wrote:
>> Aren't these two different Maud de Camvilles?

>> Burke's Peerage 107th Edition (2003) - i.e. after the Vernon entry was
>> "sorted out" at Volume III p 3996 (Vernon of Kinderton) says that
>> Richard Vernon dvp 1322/3 married "Maud daughter & coheir of William de
>> Camville, 2nd Lord Camville of the 1295 creation".

>> Dugdale's Baronage of 1676, Volume 1, page 159 says that "Sir Richard
>> Stafford of Clifton, knight, which Lordship he possessed by reason of
>> his marriage with Maud the daughter & heir to Richard Camvile of that
>> place" [quoting as his reference "Ex. Col. S. Erdswike"].

>The first is correct, the second misplaced. The early antiquaries had
>trouble explaining to themselves (as it didn't in fact happen by
>descent alone) how the Staffords came to hold Clifton Campville, and
>you will find various different versions of the pedigree as a result
>(Burke's extinct peerage and the old DNB also get in a muddle). There
>is plenty of scope for confusion as Sir Richard Stafford (d.1380)
>married (1) Isabel Vernon and (2) Maud, widow of Edmund Vernon and
>daughter of Sir John Stafford of Bramshall. He also had an eldest
>(legitimate) son called Richard, who dvpsp in 1370.

Thanks for those details Matthew. I suspected the Stafford link, as
there is no corresponding reference by Dugdale in his Camville article
- which is rather confused and apparently contradicts this, at least
inasmuch as it doesn't show a Richard de Camville amongst the Clifton
Camvilles (it is awash with alternative Mauds as well)


This thread: