GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2005-08 > 1125502258
From: "Douglas Richardson " <>
Subject: Re: King's Kinsfolk: Richard II's kinsman, Edmund Staffiord
Date: 31 Aug 2005 08:30:58 -0700
References: <firstname.lastname@example.org> <email@example.com> <4314b5ea@news.ColoState.EDU> <firstname.lastname@example.org> <4314e4dd@news.ColoState.EDU> <email@example.com> <df3kj2$23l$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>
Dear Todd ~
Thank you for your good post. You've made some excellent points. Much
My observations are based on the evidence of hundreds of other examples
of king's kinsfolk culled from thousands of pages of original source
materials both English and French over several centuries.
Regarding this specific case, I might note that if the kinship ran
short (5th degree on one side), it was usually on the king's side.
That is why we can be virtually certain that Bishop Stafford was
related to King Richard II through the Fiennes, Quincy, or Wake
families. These three families are the only ones available at the 5th
degree on the king's side, other than the English royal family itself.
Since I've never seen any of the Staffords, Bassets, Camvilles, or
Vernons addressed as king's kinsfolk, I have to assume none of these
families are related to the English royal family. And, since none of
Bishop Stafford's paternal relatives were called king's kinsfolk by
King Richard II, I have to assume that Bishop Stafford was related to
King Richard II through his mother's family, the Vernons. In short,
this means that the possibilities are quite limited. You have Fiennes,
Quincy, or Wake on the king's side and Vernon and possibly Camville on
the Bishop's side. That's it.
This is why we need to pay close attention to the marriage of Bishop
Stafford's great-grandfather, Sir Richard de Vernon, to Eleanor de
Fiennes. This marriage could simply be a coincidence, but I doubt it.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Todd A. Farmerie wrote:
> Douglas Richardson wrote:
> > We can be reasonably sure that Bishop Edmund Stafford was related to
> > King Richard II of England through one of only three families: Wake,
> > Quincy, and Fiennes.
> Say it enough times, and you convince yourself it is true. Considering
> that you are allowing relationships up to the 8th degree (as long as the
> other branch is short), I suspect there are more possibilities.
|Re: King's Kinsfolk: Richard II's kinsman, Edmund Staffiord by "Douglas Richardson " <>|