GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2005-09 > 1128084941
From: "John P. Ravilious" <>
Subject: Re: Evidence re. the identity of Alan Fitz Roland's first wife, _____ de Lacy
Date: 30 Sep 2005 05:55:41 -0700
Thanks for that - the problem was typographical, not geographical.
The association with Shere (Surrey) likely helped lead to the
marital association with the de Fay (Faye) family of Bramley (Surrey).
Roger de Clere of Shere, Surrey and Sinnington, Yorks. - son of Ralph
'II' de Clere - married Maud de Fay (Faye), elder sister and coheiress
of John and dau. of Ralph de Fay (Faye) of Bramley by Beatrice de
Turnham. This is the de Faye line of prior SGM debate, which
apparently leads back to Ralph's grandfather, Raoul de Faye, seigneur
de la Faye-le-Vineuse and Seneschal of Poitou under Eleanor, Duchess of
Aquitaine (his niece). Radulf de Faie was "given the manor of Bromley
[sic] in Surrey by Henry II early in his reign" [DD 454; corrected by
Chris Phillips, noting this was Bramley, Surrey ]. See ES I Band III
Tafel 813, and prior discussions on SGM (J. C. Parsons, et al.).
> I don't think there is a Shere in Yorks, but the Shere in Surrey is a few
> miles from Bramley, Surrey, although there is another Bramley in Yorks (where
> the apples came from)
> Dear Louise,
> Thanks for that.
> While dealing with few knowns and more unknowns, I'd hazard that
> Maud de Clere was likely a member of the Clere family of Sinnington and
> Shere, co. Yorks. (later of Bramley, Surrey). Ralph de Clere of
> Wilton, Shere and Sinnington, co. Yorks. ' confirmed his [brother
> Roger's] gift of Atlingworth to Lewes priory, making an agreement
> therefor in that year; and who gave the church of Sinnington and 4
> bovates to Yeddingham priory.' [Clay, Early Yorkshire Families, p. 21,
> cites Lewes Chartulary, ut sup., ii, 51-2; and E.Y.C., i, no. 595].
> According to Richard Borthwick, Ralph d. in 1205, having by his wife
> Mabel a son Ralph 'II', grandfather of Agatha de Clere (wife of William
> le Rus of Stinton, Norfolk and Stradbroke, Suffolk) and ancestor
> thereby of de Braose (of Stinton), de Weyland, de la Pole & many many
> more besides.
|Re: Evidence re. the identity of Alan Fitz Roland's first wife, _____ de Lacy by "John P. Ravilious" <>|