Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2005-11 > 1131659982

From: "John Higgins" <>
Subject: Re: The Merlay-Somerville-Griffith descent
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 13:59:42 -0800
References: <>

This is an interesting and useful descent...thanks for posting it. If this
is an example of what's coming in the "baronial descents" volume, it should
be an interesting book.

FWIW, a possible addition:

One of Carl Boyer's recent books (probably the one on Welsh ancestors of
Americans) cites Bartrum and says that Sir Rhys I ap Griffith (d. 1356) had
at least two other children with descendants of interest to Americans: a
son Gruffudd and a daughter Margred, both of whose descendants are traced
further by Boyer.

Bartrum, of course, screwed up the marriages of Sir Rhys I and Sir Rhys II,
assigning Isabel de Stackpole to the father rather than the son. Boyer
doesn't catch this error and so he may not be reliable as to the placement
of the children. But it's something that may be worth looking into for
possible American descents....

----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 1:04 PM
Subject: The Merlay-Somerville-Griffith descent

> Dear Newsgroup ~
> Below please find the Merlay-Somerville-Griffith descent. I've used
> many sources to construct the ten generations of this descent, chief
> among them are W. Percy, Hedley Northumberland Families; John Hodgson,
> Hist. of Northumberland; M.H. Dodds, Hist. of Northumberland, vol. 13;
> Stebbing Shaw, Hist. & Antiquities of Staffordshire; Trans.
> Cymmrodorion 1913-1914; John E. Lloyd, Hist. of Carmarthenshire; and
> Dictionary of Welsh Biography (1959): 839-840.
> There are side descents from these families through intermarriages with
> the Gobion, Cromwell, and Vernon families, which marriages I've
> indicated below.
> Comments are invited.
> Best always, Douglas Richardson Salt Lake City, Utah
> Website:
> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
> 1. WILLIAM DE MERLAY, of Morpeth, Northumberland, died c. 1129. He
> married MENIALDE _____.
> 2. RANULPH DE MERLAY, of Morpeth, Northumberland, died before 1166. He
> married JULIANE OF DUNBAR, daughter of Gospatrick, Earl of Dunbar
> (descendant of King Ethelred II of England)
> 3. ROGER DE MERLAY, of Morpeth, Northumberland, died in 1188. He
> married ALICE DE STUTEVILLE, daughter of Roger de Stuteville, of Burton
> Agnes, Yorkshire. Alice was co-heiress before 1199 to her brother,
> Anselm de Stuteville, by which she inherited the manor of Burton Agnes,
> Yorkshire, and a mesne lordship of lands in North Cave, South Cliffe,
> and Hotham, Yorkshire. She was living in 1242.
> Children of Roger de Merlay, by Alice de Stuteville:
> i. ROGER DE MERLAY [see next].
> ii. AGNES DE MERLAY, married RICHARD GOBION, of Higham Gobion,
> Bedfordshire.
> 4. ROGER DE MERLAY, of Morpeth, Witton, etc., Northumberland, Burton
> Agnes, Yorkshire, etc., benefactor of Newminster Abbey and Brinkburn,
> son and heir, born about 1173 (of age in 1194), died 1239. He married
> (1st) in or after 1188 (grant of his marriage) ADA OF FIFE, daughter of
> Duncan, 6th Earl of Fife, by his wife, Ela, daughter evidently of
> Reynold de Warenne. He married (2nd) MARGERY DE UMFREVILLE, daughter
> of Richard de Umfreville.
> 5. ROGER DE MERLAY, Knt., of Morpeth, Northumberland, Burton Agnes,
> Yorkshire, etc., died 1265, son by his father's 1st marriage. He
> married before 1241 ISABEL _____. His widow, Isabel, married (2nd)
> before 1279 Adam de Everingham, of Laxton, Nottinghamshire.
> 6. ISABEL DE MERLAY, daughter and co-heiress, born about 1257 (aged 8
> in 1265), died 1300. She married before 7 May 1275 ROBERT DE
> SOMERVILLE, Knt., died 1297, of Wichnor (in Tatenhill), Alrewas,
> Curborough House (in Streethay), and Tunstall, Staffordshire, and, in
> right of his wife, of Great Benton, Witton Underwood, Horsley, Stanton,
> and Windegates, Northumberland, and Knaptoft, Leicestershire. Isabel
> was co-heiress in 1268 to her sister, Alice de Merlay, wife of Robert
> de Thweng, by which her share of the Merlay estates increased from a
> one-third to one-half share. In 1294 Robert acquired the other half
> share of the manor of Burton Agnes, Yorkshire by an exchange with his
> wife's nephew, John de Greystoke.
> Children of Isabel de Merlay, by Robert de Somerville, Knt.:
> i. PHILIP DE SOMERVILLE, Knt. [see next].
> ancestors of Ralph Cromwell, Knt., 1st Lord Cromwell.
> 7. PHILIP DE SOMERVILLE, Knt., of Wichnor (in Tatenhill), Alrewas,
> Newbold, etc., Staffordshire, Knight of the Shire for Staffordshire,
> Sheriff of Bedfordshire and Buckinghamshire, younger son, born about
> 1287 (aged 50 in 1337), died 1355. He married MARGARET DE PIPE, living
> 1325, daughter of Thomas de Pipe, Knt. They had two daughters, Joan
> (see below) and Elizabeth (wife of John de Stafford). In 1300 his
> brother Edmund de Somerville assigned Philip various lands which had
> been held in dower by their mother, Isabel. Philip was heir in 1319 to
> his older brother, Edmund de Somerville, clerk, by which he inherited
> the manors of Wichnor (in Tatenhill), Newbold, Tunstall, Staffordshire,
> etc. He was also heir in 1337 to his younger brother, Roger de
> Somerville, Knt., of Burton Agnes, Yorkshire. Philip may be regarded
> as the second founder of Balliol College at Oxford University, to which
> institution he added new scholars to the number of fellows as well as
> one chaplain.
> 8. JOAN DE SOMERVILLE, daughter and co-heiress, died 1376. She married
> about 12 February 1325 (date of settlement) RHYS AP GRIFFITH, Knt.,
> adult by 1309, died 1356, of Llansadwrn in Cantrefmawr and Dryslwyn,
> Carmarthen and Narberth castles in Wales, and, in right of his wife, of
> Wichnor (in Tatenhill), Alrewas, etc., Staffordshire, Great Benton,
> Witton-Underwood, etc., Northumberland, Burton Agnes, Yorkshire,
> steward of Cardigan, forester of Glyncothi and Pennant, deputy to the
> royal justice of South Wales, sheriff of Carmarthen, steward of
> Cantrefmawr, son and heir of Gruffydd ap Hywel ap Gruffydd ab Ednyfed
> Fychan, of Llansadwrn, by Nest, daughter of Gwrwared ap Gwilym of
> Cemais.
> 9. RHYS AP GRIFFITH, Knt., of Wichnor (in Tatenhill), Alrewas,
> Draycott, Newbold, and Tunstall, Staffordshire, Orreby, Lincolnshire,
> Stockton, Warwickshire, Burton Agnes, Yorkshire, son and heir, born
> about 25 December 1325, died 1380. He married (1st) before 1370 ISABEL
> DE STACKPOLE, daughter and heiress of Richard de Stackpole, of
> Stackpole, Angle and Lony. He married (2nd) before 1377 MARGARET LA
> ZOUCHE, died 1430, daughter of _____ la Zouche. His widow, Margaret,
> married (2nd) after 6 November 1385 William Walsall (died 1414), of
> Rushall, Staffordshire, Knight of the Shire for Staffordshire,
> Escheator of Shropshire, Staffordshire, and the Welsh Marsh, Sheriff of
> Shropshire and Staffordshire, 1377, Sheriff of Staffordshire,
> 1381-1383, 1389-1390, 1396-1399, 1406-1407, Constable of Stafford,
> Carmarthen and Dynevor castles, Marshal of the Hall to King Richard II,
> 1395-1399.
> Child of Rhys ap Griffith, Knt., by Isabel de Stackpole:
> i. JOAN GRIFFITH, married RICHARD VERNON, Knt., of Haddon,
> Derbyshire [see VERNON 9].
> Child of Rhys ap Griffith, Knt., by Margaret Zouche:
> i. THOMAS GRIFFITH, Esq. [see next].
> 10. THOMAS [AP] GRIFFITH, Esq., of Wichnor (in Tatenhill), Alrewas,
> etc., Staffordshire, son and heir, born 19 May 1377, died 1433. He
> married ANNE BLOUNT, daughter of Walter Blount, Knt., of Barton Blount,
> Derbyshire, by Sanche de Ayala, daughter of Diego Gomez de Toledo,
> Alcalde maior de Toledo. Thomas was heir in 1387 to his 1st cousin,
> Margaret, wife of William de Carnaby (daughter of his uncle, Henry ap
> Griffith, Knt.).

This thread: