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Subject: Re: Hubert de Burgh's brother, Sir Thomas de Burgh - Part II
Date: 16 Jan 2006 15:59:17 -0800
References: <1137177359.970330.244330@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1137386862.676706.320730@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> <1137393215.141269.129140@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <1137393215.141269.129140@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Doug,

Thank You for the good post. I just finished reading the second post. I
noticed you found that Thomas and Hubert father name was Walter nice
find.

Best Always
Mike Welch
Douglas Richardson wrote:
> Dear Newsgroup ~
>
> In my post earlier this evening, I presented evidence which indicates
> that Sir Thomas de Burgh (died before 1233), brother of Sir Hubert de
> Burgh, held property at Upwell, Norfolk under Sir William Bardolf, the
> step-son of Sir Hubert de Burgh.
>
> The following information has been found in the online edition of VCH
> Cambridge, volume 4
> (http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=21919&strquery=west%20dereham#n100).
> This material relates to the history of the Burgh family's land
> holding at Upwell:
>
> "The priory of Walsingham (Norf.) also received grants from the de
> Burghs and other local families; (fn. 1) Its lands were valued at £1
> 10s. in 1291 but at only 16s. in 1535. (fn. 2). ... Besides Ramsey
> other monasteries not locally situated in the district held property in
> Upwell and Outwell. Of these the abbey of West Dereham (Norf.) was the
> most extensively endowed. During the 13th century several local persons
> made grants to it. The most important of these benefactors was William
> le Curteis, who gave 23 acres, 7s. 4d. in rents and the homage of five
> tenants in 'Welle', (fn. 94) and Thomas de Burch, who gave a messuage
> and 50 acres in Upwell (fn. 95)."
>
> Footnote 1: B.M. Cott. MS. Nero E. VII, ff 132-5. The total area is
> put at 380 acres, but the 20 grants or so copied into the cartulary do
> not amount to anything like so much.
>
> Footnote 2: Valor Eccl. (Rec. Com.), iii, 385-6.
>
> Footnote 95: B.M. Add. MS. 5805, f. 98b." END OF QUOTE.
>
> + + + + + + + + + + + + +
> It appears that the village of Upwell lies partly in Norfolk and partly
> in Cambridgeshire, which explains why its history is found in VCH
> Cambridge. Because the grants of the Burgh family to Walsingham Priory
> are contained in an unpublished manuscript at the British Library, it
> is impossible to say who in the Burgh family made the grants in
> question to Walsingham Priory. However, Complete Peerage elsewhere
> states that Earl Hubert de Burgh gave the advowson of Oulton, Norfolk
> to Walsingham Priory for the soul of Alice his mother who was buried in
> Walsingham church [Reference: Complete Peerage, 7 (1929): 133, footnote
> a].
>
> Thus, it would appear virtually certain that either Sir Hubert de Burgh
> and/or his brother, Sir Thomas de Burgh, were the individuals who
> granted lands at Upwell, Norfolk to Walsingham Priory. And, Sir Thomas
> de Burgh (brother of Sir Hubert) is presumably the same person as the
> "Thomas de Burch" who gave property at Upwell to West Dereham Priory.
>
> VCH Cambridge, volume 4, includes information regarding the
> overlordship at Upwell by the Bardolf and Warenne families which they
> held as part of their honour of Wormegay, Norfolk. The VCH account
> makes no mention, however, that Sir Hubert de Burgh would have
> possessed the Upwell fee from at least 1211 to 1243, as part of the
> Wormegay honour, in right of his wife, Beatrice de Warenne's
> inheritance.
>
> Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
>
> Website: www.royalancestry.net


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