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From: "Patricia Junkin" <>
Subject: Re: Lubbesthorpe Redux and other Zouche lines
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 19:22:03 -0500


Dear John,

Thank you. I was not n the list in early January and will go to Archives for
the discussion.

If I am not mistaken, we has adjusted a date for the elder Roger of
Lubbesthorpe's birth to the 1260's? Re; 1286, 28 Ap. Roger la Zouche of
Lubbsesthorpe "going over seas with K. he nominates attorneys. Obviously,
there is some significant part missing in this understanding.

Conjecture

Eudo la Zouche brother to Alan b. c. 1200-07 m. ??

Sir William la Zouche b. ca. 1230 m. kinswoman of Milicent and was a first
cousin to Eudo who m. MIlicent who gave Lubesthorpe to this William.
[Who was the John la Zouche who witnessed Milicent's charter [1289-1296.]?

Roger la Zouche b. c. 1260 m. Juliana [kinswoman of Milicent] by whom
Roger b. c. 1292 or later
Eudo
Alan

bef. 1255 Milicent de Cantilupo m. John de Montaldt
1268 Milicent de Cantilupo de Montaldt grants William la Zouche, Lobesthorp.
"service of third of knight's fee of the gift of Millicent de Montealto
1276 William la Zouche born to Milicent and Eudes la Zouche; becomes lord of
of Haryngsworth through inheritance from his mother.

What families pose a possible connection? de Boscos, Chamberlyns, etc?

Pat


----------
>From: "John P. Ravilious" <>
>To:
>Subject: Re: Lubbesthorpe Redux and other Zouche lines
>Date: Mon, 6, 2006, 3:56 PM
>

> Dear Pat,
>
> Indeed, having the HMC volumes (or at least that concerning the
> MSS. of the Duke of Rutland) on line is a benefit.
>
> Back in January, I had posted the text from the same work as part
> of the SGM thread <Zouche of Lubbesthorpe (revisited)> ( 8 Jan 2006).
> I have reposted the relevant extracts below for ready reference.
>
> What the exact connection is between William, father of Sir Roger,
> and the first Eudo la Zouche (ancestor of the Harringworth line) has
> not been proven, but I am of the opinion that Eudo la Zouche was a
> nephew (not brother) of William, father of Sir Roger (and thereby, a
> grandson, not son, of Sir Roger la Zouche and Margaret Bisset). I also
> am of the opinion that Juliana, wife of Sir Roger la Zouche of
> Lubbesthorpe, was closely related to Millicent de Cantelou, but this is
> far from established.
>
> I do think, given the names of the Lubbesthorpe line, that the
> link to the Harringworth and 'main' Zouche lines of descent is quite
> close; further, the heraldry of the Lubbesthorpe family indicates this
> as well.
>
> Cheers,
>
> John
>
> _______________________________________________________
>
> Historical Manuscripts Commission, The Manuscripts of His
> Grace the Duke of Rutland, K.G. Preserved at Belvoir Castle
> (London: Printed for His Majesty's Stationery Office by
> Mackie & Co., LD., 1905) IV:10-11. The text in question
> follows:
>
>
> " [3. LUBBESTHORPE CHARTERS.]
>
>
> (26) 30 Sept. 1302. - Agreement between William la Zousche and
> Juliana relict of Roger la Zousche, by which William grants to
> Juliana the custody of the land of Roger son and heir of the
> above Roger, of which his father died seised, for twenty-eight
> pounds thirteen shillings and fourpence payable to him annually
> at Haryngworth, till Roger is of age. And William grants that
> ten marcs be allowed to Juliana annually, out of the above ferm,
> to the use of her sons Eudo and Alan, which sum was assigned to
> them by their father Roger, etc. (long detailed provisions
> relating to the wardship).
> Armorial seal: Zouche, with a canton.
>
>
> (26) 15 Jan. 1328-9. - Notification of William la Zouche of
> Haringeworthe that he has inspected and confirmed the charter of
> Milicent his mother to Roger son of William la Zouche for (de)
> the manor of Lubesthorp, as follows:-
> [1289-1296.] - Charter of Milisent de Montealto, in her
> widowhood, enfeoffing Richard la Zouche, son of Sir
> William la Zouche in her manor of Lubesthorp, rendering
> therefor to her and her heirs, on June 29 annually, a
> chaplet of roses to be placed on the head of the image
> of St. Peter in the church of Lubesthorp in her name.
> Witnesses: Roger la Zouche, Alan la Zouche, Robert
> Neyville, Alexander de harecourt, Andrew de Estoleye,
> Peter son of Roger, John Fitz Peter, Henry de Notyngham,
> John de Folevyle, knights; master Henry de Brandeston,
> and Sirs (domini) Hugh de Brandeston, and John la Zouche.
> Witnesses to Inspeximus: Robert Burdet, William Moton the
> younger, Robert Champayn, Nicholas Charneyl, Ralph Malure,
> knights (and 3 others).
> Lubesthorp, Sunday after St. Hilary, 2 Edw. III.
> Armorial seal: Zouche with a canton.
>
>
> (26) Charter of William la Zousch', lord of Haryngworth,
> enfeoffing Roger la Zousch', knight, son of Roger la Zousch',
> in his manor of Lubbesthorp for the above service.
> Lubbesthorpe, Sunday after St. Peter's Chair, 1 Edw. III.
> [29 Feb. 1326-7].
> Armorial seal: Zouche with a canton.
>
>
> (26) 13 March 1362-3. - A feoffment by William la Souche,
> chivaler, of 'Sires' Reynald son of William Hayward of Dalby
> and John Wryght of Somerdeby is witnessed by William abbot of
> Leicester, Ralf Turvyll of Normanton and three others.
> Armorial seal of William: Zouche with a label.
>
>
> (26) 6 Oct. 1377. - Receipt from Juliane relict of John Seint
> Andrew 'que dieux assoile' to Robert de Swyllyngton 'luncle'
> for
> six pounds thirteen shillings and fourpence paid her from the
> manor of Lubstorp, for the Christmas and Easter terms last past.
> Armorial seal: Seint Andrew (mascally, with a label) impaling
> Zouche. Legend: S. IU..... O ANDREA.
>
>
> (26) Deed of William la Zouche of Lobisthorp granting 100
> shillings or rent there to Nicholas Grene of Isham, 25 July
> 37 Ed. III. [1363].
> Armorial seal: Zouche with a label.
>
>
> (26) April 1364. - Deed of William la Zouche of Lubesthorp,
> knight, vesting his manor of Lubesthorp in feoffees. Monday
> after St. Gregory, 38 Ed. III.
> Armorial seal: Zouche with a label.
>
>
> (26) 6 Nov. 1425. - Lease of the third part of the manor of
> Lubbesthorp' from Robert Cunstable of Holme in Spaldyngmore to
> Thomas Assheby of Lowesby the elder for the term of his life
> and two hundred years beyond, for a hundred shillings a year,
> from which Robert undertakes to pay thirty shillings a year to
> Katherine relict of Marmaduke Cunstable his father during her
> life. Among the witnesses is Thomas Assheby the younger.
> Armorial seal of Robert: Quarterly ( ) and vair, a bend.
>
>
> Counterpart of preceding. Armorial seal of Thomas 'Asseby':
> two bars.
>
>
> (16) Letter of attorney from Robert Constable, knight,
> concerning th third part of the manor of Lubbesthorp 5 Nov.,
> 4 Henry VI. [1425].
> Armorial seal: Quarterly ( ) and vair, a bend.
>
>
> (26) 1433. - Feoffment by Thomas Assheby of Lobesthorp, the
> elder, of Ralf Assheby his son, and Isabel, Ralf's wife, in a
> third part of the manor of Lobesthorp; to be held in free
> marriage, with reversion to himself in default of their having
> issue.
> Hiis testibus: Roberto Moton milite; Willelmo Trussell milite;
> Thoma Fowlehyrst armigero; Baldewino Bugg' armigero; Ricardo
> Danet armigero.
> Lobesthorp, 28 Jan. 11 Hen. VI [1432/3].
> Armorial seal of Thomas: Two bars.
>
>
> (26) Quitclaim from Robert Constable knight of his rights in
> a third part of Lubsthorp, 8 June, 10 Edw. IV. [1470].
> Armorial seal: Impaling Quarterly ( ) and vair, a bend. "
>
>
>
>
>
> "Patricia Junkin" wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> I accidentally happened on The Manuscripts of His Grace The Duke of Rutland
>> on a Google Book Search. Page 10 gives information on the Lubbesthorpe
>> Charters.
>>
>> It appears from one dated 1302 an agreement was reached between Juliana, the
>> relict of Roger la Zouche, dead, in which Roger, son and heir of her husband
>> Roger was in minority and William la Zouche[of Haryngsworth] has granted her
>> custody of lands and other items until Roger is of age. It also mentions
>> Juliana's two sons ALAN and EUDO!
>>
>> in 1328 William la Zouche of Haryngsworth confirms his mother, Milicent's
>> charter, in her widowhood (between 1289-1296) to Roger son of SIR William la
>> Zouche her manor of Lobesthorpe for rendering a chaplet of roses to be
>> placed on the head of the image of St. Peter in the church of Lubesthorpe in
>> her name. Witnesses to Milicent's charter were Roger la Zouche, Alan la
>> Zouche and John la Zouche
>>
>> The naming of Juliana's two children suggest that perhaps Roger was the
>> grandson of a Eudo. We know that there was Eudo, brother to Alan, and Eudo
>> who married Milicent. Could the elder Eudo b. ca. 1200 have had a son
>> William who may have married a kinswoman of Milicent's? I know this is
>> reaching.
>>
>> In an earlier post, I asked about Margaret Biset of Farlegh Hants. I believe
>> she was a sister to Henry Biset and not the wife of Roger la Zouche.
>> May I inquire if there is any substantiation to give William la Zouche of
>> Essex lands at Farlegh.
>>
>> Part of Oliver la Zouche's [b. c. 1250] known land lay in Hampshire as well
>> as Scotland and elsewhere and he had descendants other than John. I am
>> pursuing the sale of the lands in Hampshire by a later Oliver with wife
>> Isabel to the Pophams.
>>
>> Any thoughts appreciated.
>> Pat
>


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