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From: Tim Powys-Lybbe <>
Subject: Re: Early de Fiennes
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:50:03 GMT
References: <2fe.62730c.3144d308@aol.com> <79bb59064e.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <1142188354.971559.310590@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9e5b9a064e.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <1142202280.670180.293010@j52g2000cwj.googlegroups.com> <1142211061.060074.160990@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>


In message of 13 Mar, "SomersetSue" <> wrote:

> I have now seen an extract from the Edward Hasted "The History and
> Topographical Survey of the County of Kent".
> He believed John de Fiennes to be Warden of Dover Castle and a
> favourite of William the Conqueror.

Although I have a copy of Hasted, I am not his greatest fan.

> "On the partition of their inheritance this manor was allotted to
> Roger de Fiennes, who accordingly took possession of it. He was
> descended from that John de Fiennes, who was one of the chief
> favourites of William the Conqueror, who made him constable of
> Dover-castle, and warden of the cinque ports.

If this was William the Conqueror then this appointment as
constable would have happened any time between 1066 and 1087.

> Roger de Fienes before mentioned, bore for his arms, Azure, three
> lions rampant or. He obtained licence of king Henry VI. to embattle
> his mansion at Hurstmonceaux, in Sussex, which he rebuilt in a most
> magnificent manor, and greatly enlarged in park there."

Henry VI reigned from 1422 to 1461.

>
> OK so John de Fiennes was Warden of Dover. This site says he was
> succeeded in this post by descendants James and John

This gap of over 335 years needs just a tiny bit of evidence to justify
the claimed link. While I can connect up some Fiennes, the earliest
connected person I have found is Guillaume de Fiennes, Seigneur de
Fiennes who may have died around 1240 (CP VI, 465-6 incl notes (d), (a)
and (b) ).

> http://home.freeuk.net/eastkent/dover/garrison/constables.htm
>
> It doesn't say they are his son and grandson but this may have been
> presumed by someone. If John was a favourite of William the Conqueror
> then he should be a contemporary of his. Is he perhaps the father or
> brother of Eustache I de Fiennes?

This may be someone who I can find some information about. An Eustache
is mentioned in Keats-Rohan's "Domesday Descendants" p. 460; she says he
was the son of Conan fitz Eustache and Gila and came from
Pas-de-Calais. He was the father of Eustache III and of Ingelran who
m. Sibil dau. and heir of Pharamus de Tingry.

I cannot find any other records on any other Fiennes in either this book
or its predecessor Domesday People (you have been warned, sometimes her
naming system is impenetrable and you can't find people who in fact are
listed). I take this to mean that there are no surviving records about
John de Fiennes, Constable of Dover.

> More digging needed I think by someone with better access than I have
> to verifiable records.

I could not agree with you more, though I cannot read these old
records, even if I could find them and rely instead on good books by
people who worked pretty close to the surviving documents.

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          
             For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

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