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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2006-07 > 1154131156


From: "Todd A. Farmerie" <>
Subject: Re: Charlemagne Line??
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 17:59:16 -0600
References: <4d5.49d3cec.31fbdcff@aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <4d5.49d3cec.31fbdcff@aol.com>


wrote:
> In a message dated 7/28/06 2:23:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> writes:
>
> << Sure that's right. From Maud of Savoy you get to Henry the Fowler and
> then
> its just a few more steps to Charlemagne >>
>
> Sorry
> Maud of Savoy
> Amadeus III, Count of Savoy d 1148 in Cyprus
> Gisela of Burgundy - Humbert II, Count of Savoy d 1103
> William, Count of Burgundy d 1087 - Stephanie
> Renaud, Count of Burgundy d 1057 - Alice or Judith "of Normandy" d 1037
> Otto William, Count of Burgundy d 1026 - Hermentrude of Roucy d 1003
> Renaud of Roucy, Count of Rheims d 972/3 - Alberade of Lorraine
> Gerberge, Duchess of Lorraine d 984 - Giselbert, Duke of Lorraine d 939
> Henry the Fowler, HR Emperor d 936 - Maud of Ringleheim d 968

Might he be the closest known common ancestor to Affonso and his wife?
I say known because Henry, Count of Portugal (Affonso's father) and
Ramon, Count of Galicia (Maud's great-uncle, the brother of Gisela of
Burgundy, above) were kinsman, the relationship presumed to be through
the unknown wife of Henry of Burgundy, discussed previously in this
thread, and Stephanie the mother of Ramon and Gisela. Some have even
hypothesized that these two women were sisters, but that seems unlikely
as two of their children, (Duke Eudes Borrell and Sibylla - the actual
Sibylla mother of the Duke named in the charter that has been
misattributer to the mother of Eudes) who would then be first cousins,
married (and not in Spain, where that kind of thing was known to happen
from time to time).

> Otto the Great of Saxony d 912 - Hedwige d 903
>
> dau either of
> Louis the German, King of the East Franks - Emma of Bavaria

I have never seen a bit of data to suggest that this version was
anything but a late invention, created to make Henry the Fowler a
'legitimate' succession right, where at the time none was needed (this
was a period in which a whole string of non-Carolingians would take or
be given royal titles).

> OR
> Henry of Thuringia d 886 - Ingeltrude of Friuli

This is more promissing, but still based on drawing a web of hypotheses
based on name usage.

> either way a descentant of Charlemagne.
>
> Is this line flawed also? :)

Of course! :) You left out option:

3) neither Louis nor Henry.

taf

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