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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2006-07 > 1154142540


From: "Peter Stewart" <>
Subject: Re: Charlemagne Line??
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 03:09:00 GMT
References: <bda.17b3bc6.31fb7f77@aol.com> <027e01c6b296$018e7670$0300a8c0@Toshiba> <44caa025@news.ColoState.EDU> <02b401c6b29f$eab962c0$0300a8c0@Toshiba> <44cab83e@news.ColoState.EDU> <030401c6b2b6$452f2f30$0300a8c0@Toshiba>


""Leo van de Pas"" <> wrote in message
news:030401c6b2b6$452f2f30$...
> Dear Todd,
>
> What is the correct spelling of the firstname? You show Dalmas, Turton
> (page 200) shows Dalmace, ES III/3 434 uses Damas and so does Gaston
> Sirjean.
>
> Which one are you referring to? There are three in that family. It can't
> be Damas I, as his mother goes nowhere. Damas II for him I have no
> parents, that leaves Damas III, and I have him as mentioned in 1223 no
> wife no children. However, in my system it is Damas I, which appears as an
> ancestor as nr.18.
>
> The numbers I gave were 4128, 4896, 8848 and 8944
>
> 1.Alfonso I King of Portugal
> 2.Henri Count of Portugal
> 4.Henri de Bourgogne
> 8.Robert I Duke of Burgundy
> 9.Helie de Semur
> 16.Robert II King of France
> 17.Constance de Provence
> 19.Aremburge de Bourgogne
> 32.Hugues Capet, King of France
> 34.Guillaume II the Liberator Count of Arles and Provence
> 38.Henri Duke of Burgundy
> 64-76.Hugues the Great, Duke of the Franks
> 69.Constance de Provence
> 76=64.
> 129-153.Beatrice de Vermandois

<snip>

> 258-306.Herbert I de Vermandois

Check the archives for discussions of this - Beatrix the wife of King Robert
I and mother of Hugo Magnus, duke of the Franks, was almost certainly not a
daughter of Heribert I of Vermandois. The error, if that's what it is, goes
back to the 12th century chronicle of Saint-Pierre-le-Vif at Sens, not a vey
reliable source and definitely not to be set ahead of Flodoard of Rheims,
who did not mention the curious double relationship that would result
amongst people of the greatest interest to him.

The case made for this by Karl Ferdinand Werner, Constance Bouchard and
Christian Settipani is based on several further errors about the name
Beatrix and its alleged (quite false) connection to the Carolingian name
Berta that is supposed to have been given to her in one source (the
reference is actually to a different woman altogether). The name Beatrix
demonstrably came instead from the Roman saint Viatrix, originally meaning a
female wayfarer. There are very few instances of this name before the wife
of King Robert I, but it was not unique to her descendants in the 10th
century and later as Bouchard imagines.

Peter Stewart


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