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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2006-07 > 1154151571


From: "Peter Stewart" <>
Subject: Re: Charlemagne Line??
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 05:39:31 GMT
References: <bda.17b3bc6.31fb7f77@aol.com> <027e01c6b296$018e7670$0300a8c0@Toshiba> <44caa025@news.ColoState.EDU> <02b401c6b29f$eab962c0$0300a8c0@Toshiba> <44cab83e@news.ColoState.EDU> <030401c6b2b6$452f2f30$0300a8c0@Toshiba> <44cada99@news.ColoState.EDU>


"Todd A. Farmerie" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Leo van de Pas wrote:
>> Dear Todd,
>>
>> What is the correct spelling of the firstname? You show Dalmas, Turton
>> (page 200) shows Dalmace, ES III/3 434 uses Damas and so does Gaston
>> Sirjean.
>
> I have seen them all and others - typical problem of recasting a medieval
> name that appears in Latin documents into modern languages in which the
> name is not current. I don't know that there is a 'correct' spelling.
>
>> Which one are you referring to? There are three in that family. It can't
>> be Damas I, as his mother goes nowhere. Damas II for him I have no
>> parents, that leaves Damas III, and I have him as mentioned in 1223 no
>> wife no children. However, in my system it is Damas I, which appears as
>> an ancestor as nr.18.
>
> Yes, and as I did the math, the lines appeared to go through his wife and
> mother - it appears that I erred in one of the calculations.
>
>>
>> The numbers I gave were 4128, 4896, 8848 and 8944
>>
>> 1.Alfonso I King of Portugal
>> 2.Henri Count of Portugal
>> 4.Henri de Bourgogne
>> 8.Robert I Duke of Burgundy
>> 9.Helie de Semur
>> 16.Robert II King of France
>> 17.Constance de Provence
>> 19.Aremburge de Bourgogne
>
> While speculated by Szabolcs de Vajay, I am unaware of direct evidence
> which shows Arembourge as mother of Helie.

The speculation by Vajay is about the parentage of Aremburg, but I don't
think there is any doubt that a woman of this name was mother of Helie of
Semur, the first wife of Duke Robert I of Burgundy. As far as I remember, in
a life of her brother Hugo, abbot of Cluny, it is made clear that their
father had only one wife.

Aremburg's family is not recorded, and (going by memory) Vajay was trying to
make a case that she was a maternal half-sister of Thibaud of Semur, count
of Chalon, who was called uncle by her sons. However, Count Thibaud was a
paternal half-brother of Aremburg's husband Dalmas I of Semur, so there is
no mystery about this, and equally there is no evidence at all that his
mother Mathild of Chalon was married twice.

Peter Stewart


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