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From: "John P. Ravilious" <>
Subject: Re: Proudly Porcine Descendants of Ulf the Swineherd - PPDUS
Date: 29 Aug 2006 17:52:57 -0700
References: <s4f47248.017@CENTRAL_SVR2> <01cc01c6cbc9$aca1fcc0$0300a8c0@Toshiba>
In-Reply-To: <01cc01c6cbc9$aca1fcc0$0300a8c0@Toshiba>


Dear Tony, Leo, James, et al.,

In general, as has been pointed out already, the odds of
tracing a peasant-to-peasant descent (outside the rare pedigree given
in a Plea roll, of course) down to the present day ranges between the
impossible to the highly unlikely. Godgifu strength to make the
effort........

That being said, there are some well-known descents from the
not-highly-placed to the present day. The best example I can think of
is Herleve (or Arletta), and her father [allegedly, Fulbert the
'tanner' - possibly, undertaker] of Falaise. Her son William (and her
other issue, esp. Robert of Mortain) have been quite successful in
spreading her descendants across Europe, and elsewhere.

Any other candidates for required membership in the '
Worldwide Order of Numerous Descendants of European Riff-Raff ' ? If
you find one, you too can gain admission, and be recognized as a
W.O.N.D.E.R.

Cheers,

John



"Leo van de Pas" wrote:
> Dear Tony,
>
> The other frustrating reason has to be the lack of records of Ulf the
> Swineherd and his descendants.
> Also better medical attention bestowed upon the higher classes, the higher
> classes able to move away when a plague or war approaches, poor Ulf and his
> descendants must have been pretty sturdy to have produced at least some
> descendants to the present.
>
> I would love it could I find my "Ulf" living around 1300 at the same time, I
> would not ignore Edward III, if I could find him. Sadly, I am sure (99%)
> that I will find neither for myself.
> Leo
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tony Hoskins" <>
> To: <>; <>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:58 AM
> Subject: Re: Proudly Porcine Descendants of Ulf the Swineherd - PPDUS
>
>
> > "You think the descendants of Ulf the Swineherd are more intermarried
> > with their own kind, than those of Edward III?"
> >
> > Excellent question, Leo, and one that in fact forces me to confess that
> > I think Ulf's descendants are bound, on the contrary, to be remarkably
> > fewer than Edward III's. Over the years I've observed that the upper
> > classes reproduced more "successfully" (more children lived to beget
> > their own children) than did the lower classes - on average. Cases in
> > point: the canard that since in sheer numbers indentured servants and
> > criminals transported to colonial Virginia were far, far more numerous
> > than the English gentry who settled and owned the land there, that
> > Americans of colonial Virginian descent are much more likely to have
> > humble ancestry. I say canard because, to my experience and observation,
> > descents from the Virginia gentry are if anything *more* common than
> > descents from the poor indentured and criminal classes. It's only
> > logical, too, to realize that in colonial Virginia during the earlier
> > generations men far outnumbered women; i.e. the richer men had better
> > odds to have a wife. Hence richer men (of higher class) probably
> > reproduced more numerously/successfully.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > Anthony Hoskins
> > History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
> > History and Genealogy Library
> > Sonoma County Library
> > 3rd and E Streets
> > Santa Rosa, California 95404
> >
> > 707/545-0831, ext. 562
> >

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