GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2006-11 > 1163545138
From: "John P. Ravilious" <>
Subject: CP 'Addition': Elizabeth de Nevill, mother of Ralph,Lord Greystoke (d. 1323)
Date: 14 Nov 2006 14:58:58 -0800
Tuesday, 14 November, 2006
The account in Complete Peerage concerning Ralph, 1st Lord
Greystoke states that he was the son of Robert fitz Ralph: his
mother was identified by Miss Burford Butcher as Elizabeth, but
she was otherwise unidentified .
Several secondary sources state that Elizabeth was a Nevill:
Robert Davies, for one, stated specifically that Robert fitz Ralph
' married Elizabeth, daughter of Ralph Neville of Scotton in
Lincolnshire ' without citing any source ; there is a citation
to an inquisition on the death of Elizabeth in the Additions to
Dugdale's Baronage, but if this is transcribed as Ralph as
indicated by the author, this is an error . The lord of Scotton
(Lincs.) at the time was Robert de Nevill, son of Philip
de Nevill of Enderby, Northants. Sometime after the death of
William le Boteler of Wemme in 1283, Robert de Nevill married
William's widow Angharad ferch Gruffydd, daughter of Gruffydd ap
Madog by his wife Emma de Audley (licence for same was granted on
10 June 1285) . Robert de Nevill of Scotton had letters of
protection for 3 years dated 26 Nov 1290, due to his pilgrimage to
Jerusalem; he may have been in England by 24 May 1293, when a
commission was granted to R. le Porter and J. de Sylvestrode
concerning the breaking of the park of Robert de Nevill and
Angareta his wife at Oversley, co. Warwicks. . He had certainly
returned by November 1293, and was still living at the time of a
mandate dated at Westminster, 28 Nov 1293, concerning the chapel of
St. Mary at Scotton, Lincs. .
This identification is supported by the dispensation for the
marriage of Elizabeth's son Ralph to Alice de Audley:
' Request, by the King, for a papal dispensation that Ralph
Craystoke, of the diocese of York, and Alice de Audele the
King's kinswoman, of the diocese of Coventry and Lichfield,
might intermarry, although the said Ralph and Alice are
related in the 4th-3rd degrees of consanguinity ' 
Elizabeth de Nevill was the daughter of Robert (not Ralph) de
Nevill of Scotton and his wife Angharad ferch Gruffydd. The common
descent of Ralph and Alice from Sir Henry de Aldithley and Bertrade
de Mainwaring made them 2nd cousins 1x removed, or related in the
4th and 3rd degrees as stated in the dispensation.
Sir Henry de Aldithley = Bertrade de Mainwaring
(de Audley) I
d. bef Nov 1246 I
Emma = Gruffydd ap Madog Sir James = Ela
I de Audley I Longespee
I I III I
Madog Angharad = 1) William le <siblings> Hugh de Audley
I Boteler d. 1325
____________I = 2) Robert de = Isolde
I I Nevill _____________I____
V I I I
__________________I____________ I Hugh de Audley
I I I E of Gloucester
Philip Robert fitz = Elizabeth I
Ralph I de Nevill I
d. bef 15 Apr I d. 1346 I
1317 I I
1) Ralph de Greystoke = Alice de = 2) Ralph de
m. aft 25 Nov 1317 I Audley I Neville
____I d. 1374 I____
Based upon the IPM of Robert fitz Ralph, the account in CP
states that Ralph de Greystoke was born on 15 August 1299 .
His parents would have been young (Robert aged 18 or possibly more,
Elizabeth probably aged 14 or 15), if the dating in the IPM is
accurate. Past history has shown this may well not be the case,
and given the relative youth of Elizabeth in 1299, given the
chronology of the family ca. 1283-1285, I would recommend a close
examination of Robert's 1317 IPM, when possible.
The foregoing resolves the quandary of the Greystoke-Audley
dispensation, and also provides an additional Nevill/Bromfield/
Audley descent for the Lords Greystoke, the Hiltons of Swine and
Winestead, and a host of descendants. There are also lines to
de Braose, the earlier princes of Gwynedd and Powys, and the
well-known descent from Henry I of England via Gloucester,
the Earls of Chester, Mainwaring and Audley.
Any additional information, comment or criticism is welcome.
Further information concerning the earlier Nevills of Scotton is
also being sought.
 CP VI:190, sub _Greystoke_.
 Robert Davies, F.S.A., Grimthorpe, in Yorkshire Archaeological
and Topographical Journal (London, 1873), II:201.
 Collectanea Topographica et Genealogica (London: Nichols and
Son, 1838), V:315, cites Esc. 20 Edw III. no. 52.
See also Testa. Eboracensia IV:20, which states 'she was
a Nevill' [cites Reg. Zouche, 305b.].
 CP II:231, sub _Boteler, Botiler or Butiller (of Wem)_, cites
CCR 12 Edw I, m. 9 and CPR 13 Edw. I, m. 10.
 Knights of Edward I (HSP 82), III:261, cites CPR (no date).
The commission was dated at Westminster, 24 May 1293:
CPR 21 Edw I, p. 46, m. 15d.
 Mandate dated at Westminster, 28 Nov 1293:
to Robert de Nevill of Scotton to grant messuages and land in
Scotton and Northorpe to a chaplain in the chapel of St. Mary
at Scotton, retaining land in Scotton and Manton. Lincoln.'
 CP VI:190, note (f), cites Roman Roll, 11-14 Edw. II, m. 14d.
* John P. Ravilious
|CP 'Addition': Elizabeth de Nevill, mother of Ralph,Lord Greystoke (d. 1323) by "John P. Ravilious" <>|