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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2007-06 > 1181258468


From: Brad Verity <>
Subject: Re: Gascoigne of Sedbury
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 16:21:08 -0700
References: <mailman.2953.1181088829.5576.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2953.1181088829.5576.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>


On Jun 5, 5:11 pm, "John Higgins" <> wrote:

Dear John,

Comments interspersed.

> Back in early April, in one of his useful posts on descents of Yorkshire gentry from Joan Beaufort (and thus from Edward III), Brad Verity included this segment on the Gascoignes of Sedbury (a cadet line of Gawthorpe):

I can add a few more dates the line below.

> D4. Sir William Gascoigne (c.1450-1487); m. Margaret Percy
> D5. Sir William Gascoigne, m. (1) Alice Frognall

Sir William was born c.1469 (aged 18 and more in November 1487), and
died 20 October 1551, at the advanced age of 82! He thus rivals Sir
Richard Norton of Norton Conyers in the 16th-century Yorkshire gentry
longevity arena. But did he live that long? Confusingly, there
appears to be two wills for this same Sir William: the first, dated 14
October 1528, is printed in Knaresborough Wills Vol. 1 (Sur. Soc. 104,
1902), and the second, dated 28 January 1546, was proved 23 March
1552, and printed in Testamenta Eboracensia VI. The problem is,
though the first will is clearly that of the above Sir William, as he
mentions younger sons Marmaduke Gascoigne and John Gascoigne, the
second will only mentions wife Dame Bridget, and no other family
members, and makes no mention of superceding any previous will. In
Sir William's bio in Wedgwood's HOP, his son and heir (another Sir
William Gascoigne) was said to be age 50 at his father's death (so
born 1501), but this can't be right as he is earlier said to have been
knighted at the Battle of Flodden in 1513. To add to the confusion,
Wedgwood states there must have been two sons named William, as one
died in 1538.

So more research needs to be done on the senior Gawthorpe branch, as
well as the Sedbury Gascoignes.

> D6. Henry Gascoigne, third son, m. Isabel Boynton of Sedbury

Isabel Boynton died 23 March 1545. CP (in the bio of her second
husband Thomas, 10th Lord Hilton) makes Isabel born c.1479, saying she
was age 24 in 1503, but this is incorrect: it was her mother, Isabel
Lumley Boynton, who was age 24 in 1503 (at the death of her father
Bertram Lumley of Ravensworth). Henry Gascoigne was dead by 1543/44,
when Isabel married Sir Thomas Hilton.

> D7. Sir Henry Gascoigne of Sedbury (d. 1558) m. Margaret Cholmley

Sir Henry Gascoigne died 28 October 1558, and his IPM was taken on 25
September 1561.

> D8. Richard Gascoigne of Sedbury (d. 1605) m. Jane Norton

Presumably his father's 1561 IPM would return an age for Richard. His
pre-marriage settlement with Jane Norton was dated 1 April 1548.

> D9. Sir John Gascoigne of Sedbury
> D10. Sir William Gascoigne of Sedbury (c.1568-1643) m. Barbara Anderson

Sir William Gascoigne and Barbara Anderson were married at Pittington
3 June 1599.

> D11. Isabel Gascoigne of Sedbury m. 1611 Sir Marmaduke Wyvill, 2nd Baronet
>
> The source for this, and specifically for generation D9, was the VCH for the North Riding of Yorkshire, which in turn cited Whitaker's Richmondshire and Hopkinson's MSS. In a recent trip to the FHL in Salt Lake City, I was able to check out the two sources cited by VCH. Actually, it turns out to be just one source, since Whitaker cites, and appears to quote verbatim, a pedigree of the Boyntons from the Hopkinson MSS. I say "appears to" because I could not locate the Gascoigne of Sedbury descent in the volume that the FHL has catalogued as the Hopkinson MSS, although both the Boynton and Gascoigne pedigrees there mention the marriage between the two families but do not carry the descent further than the marriage. So Whitaker probably got his Gascoigne descent from some place else (uncited) - and there are at least two key problems with his Gascoigne descent.

Thank you very much for taking the time to check the VCH sources.

> 1) Whitaker says that the Henry Gascoigne who mar. Isabel Gascoigne of Sedbury was the son, not the grandson, of the Sir William Gascoigne who mar. Margaret Percy. I have seen this parentage for Henry in at least one other (unsourced) pedigree of the Gascoignes, but two separate visitation pedigrees (Flower 1563/4 and Glover 1584/5) shows Henry's parentage as that listed by Brad's note, which appears to be the generally accepted version.

The chronology certainly favors Henry Gascoigne of Sedbury being
grandson of Sir William Gascoigne and Margaret Percy, and the 1530
Visitation pedigree of the family taken by Herald Thomas Tonge states
that Henry was the third son of Sir William Gascoigne of Gawthorpe and
his first wife Alice Frognell. [Note: the 1530 Visitation pedigree of
Gascoigne published in Sur. Soc. 41 (1863) is frustratingly
incomplete: it is printed on p. 15, but a long footnote cuts off the
pedigree halfway through the paragraph on Sir William Gascoigne and
Alice Frognell, and the following page - p. 16 - starts a completely
new family pedigree, Stapleton of Wighill.]

> 2) Whitaker says that D9, Sir John Gascoigne, mar. Margaret, dau. of Sir Robert Skargill. But this generation does not appear in the Gascoigne of Sedbury pedigree in the Glover visitation, and Flower's visitation places this Sir John and his wife in a totally different branch, the Gascoignes descended from James G. of Cardington, Bedfordshire, a son by the 2nd marriage of Sir William G. the Chief Justice. I suspect that Whitaker (or his unnamed source) was confused in inserting this Sir John into the Sedbury pedigree.

I think you've uncovered the source of VCH's incorrect account - great
work! Certainly, Foster's pedigree of the Gascoignes of Sedbury from
the 1585/1612 Visitations shows no Sir John Gascoigne between Richard
Gascoigne of Sedbury and Sir William Gascoigne of Sedbury, and he
certainly should be there if Whitaker had been correct.

The Gascoignes need a lot of further research. The more I do these
Joan Beaufort descents for the Yorkshire gentry, the more I realize
how so many of them descend from Sir William Gascoigne of Gawthorpe
(d. 1487) and Margaret Percy.

Cheers, --------Brad



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