GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2007-08 > 1186236667
From: "D. Spencer Hines" <>
Subject: Re: Death of Edward II
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 15:11:07 +0100
Leo backs off concerning his idle, totally unsupported opining re the Death
of King Edward II of England...
Then retreats in confusion, bile, silly-buggers but vastly amusing hissy fit
and righteous wrath.
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
"Leo van de Pas" <> wrote in message
Sound & Fury Signifying Nothing.
Leo can't even see that Manuele de Fieschi's, notary of the Pope's,
purported epistle is singularly unconvincing and certainly does not prove
"In the name of the Lord, amen Those things that I have heard from the
confession of your father I have written with my own hand, and afterwards I
have taken care to be known to Your Highness.
First, he has said that, feeling England in subversion against him after the
threat from your mother, he departed from his followers in the castle of the
Earl Marshal by the sea, which is called Chepstow. Later, driven by fear, he
boarded a barque together with Lord Hugh Ie Despenser and the Earl of
Arundel and several others, and made his way by sea to Glamorgan on the
coast. There he was captured, together with the said Lord Hugh and Master
Robert Baldock, and they were taken by Lord Henry of Lancaster. And they led
him to Kenilworth Castle, and the others were taken to various other places.
And there, many people demanding it, he lost the crown. Subsequently, you
were crowned at the feast of Candlemas next following. Finally, they sent
him to the castle of Berkeley. Afterwards, the servant who was guarding him,
after some little time, said to your father, 'Sire, Lord Thomas Gurney and
Lord Simon Barford, knights, have come with the purpose of killing you. If
it pleases you, I shall give you my clothes that you may better be able to
escape.' Then, wearing the said clothes, at twilight, he went out of the
prison. And when he had reached the last door without resistance, because he
was not recognised, he found the porter sleeping, whom he quickly killed.
And, having got the keys out of the door, he opened it and went out, with
his keeper. The said knights who had come to kill him, seeing that he had
thus fled, and fearing the indignation of the Queen, for fear of their
lives, thought to put that aforesaid porter in a chest, his heart having
been extracted and maliciously presented to the Queen, as if they were the
heart and body of your father; and, as the body of the King, the said porter
was buried at Gloucester. After he had escaped from the prison of the
aforesaid castle, he was received at Corte Castle together with his
companion, who had guarded him in prison, by Lord Thomas, the castellan of
the said castle, without the knowledge of Lord John Maltravers, lord of the
said Thomas, in which castle he remained secretly for a year and a half.
Afterwards, hearing that the Earl of Kent, for maintaining that he was
alive, had been beheaded, he took a ship with his said keeper and, with the
consent and counsel of the said Thomas, who had received him, crossed into
Ireland, where he remained for nine months. Afterwards, fearing lest he be
recognised there, and having taken the habit of a hermit, he came back to
England and proceeded to the port of Sandwich, and in the same habit crossed
the sea to Sluys.
Afterwards, he turned his steps in Normandy, and from Normandy, as many do,
crossing through Languedoc, he came to Avignon, where he gave a florin to a
Papal servant and sent, by the same servant, a note to Pope John. The Pope
summoned him and kept him secretly and honourably for more than fifteen
days. Finally, after various deliberations, all things having been
considered, and after receiving permission to depart, he went to Paris, and
from Paris to Brabant, and from Brabant to Cologne, so that, out of
devotion, he might see the [shrine of] the Three Kings. And, leaving
Cologne, he crossed over Germany and headed for Milan in Lombardy.
In Milan, he entered a certain hermitage in the castle of Milasci [Melazzo],
in which hermitage he remained for two and a half years; and because war
overran the said castle, he moved to the castle of Cecima in another
hermitage of the diocese of Pavia in Lombardy. And he remained in this last
hermitage for two years or thereabouts, always the recluse, doing penance or
praying God for you and other sinners. In testimony of which I have caused
my seal to be affixed for the consideration of Your Highness.
Your Manuele de Fieschi, notary of the Lord Pope, your devoted servant."
As throughout this exchange, if Leo wants to defend Manuele de Fieschi's
letter which was ostensibly written to curry the favor of Edward III, then
the Burden of Proof is on him.
But he demurs from doing that -- and runs for the tall grass.
No Surprises There...
Leo is a mere cataloguer and compiler of names and "biographies" of
historical figures with scant knowledge of how to parse, analyze and
critique said lists of names and factoids into a coherent historical
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
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