GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2007-08 > 1186265617
From: "Leo van de Pas" <>
Subject: Fw: Death of Edward II
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 08:13:37 +1000
Spencer get your knickers out of a knot.
Show where I give _my_ opinion about the death of Edxward II. If you can't,
For a change do something positive, it has been years and years since you
have done that. Sniping and behaving like a prat is so much your style.
----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Spencer Hines" <>
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 12:11 AM
Subject: Re: Death of Edward II
> Leo backs off concerning his idle, totally unsupported opining re the
> of King Edward II of England...
> Then retreats in confusion, bile, silly-buggers but vastly amusing hissy
> and righteous wrath.
> 'Nuff Said.
> Lux et Veritas et Libertas
> "Leo van de Pas" <> wrote in message
> Sound & Fury Signifying Nothing.
> Leo can't even see that Manuele de Fieschi's, notary of the Pope's,
> purported epistle is singularly unconvincing and certainly does not prove
> "In the name of the Lord, amen Those things that I have heard from the
> confession of your father I have written with my own hand, and afterwards
> have taken care to be known to Your Highness.
> First, he has said that, feeling England in subversion against him after
> threat from your mother, he departed from his followers in the castle of
> Earl Marshal by the sea, which is called Chepstow. Later, driven by fear,
> boarded a barque together with Lord Hugh Ie Despenser and the Earl of
> Arundel and several others, and made his way by sea to Glamorgan on the
> coast. There he was captured, together with the said Lord Hugh and Master
> Robert Baldock, and they were taken by Lord Henry of Lancaster. And they
> him to Kenilworth Castle, and the others were taken to various other
> And there, many people demanding it, he lost the crown. Subsequently, you
> were crowned at the feast of Candlemas next following. Finally, they sent
> him to the castle of Berkeley. Afterwards, the servant who was guarding
> after some little time, said to your father, 'Sire, Lord Thomas Gurney and
> Lord Simon Barford, knights, have come with the purpose of killing you. If
> it pleases you, I shall give you my clothes that you may better be able to
> escape.' Then, wearing the said clothes, at twilight, he went out of the
> prison. And when he had reached the last door without resistance, because
> was not recognised, he found the porter sleeping, whom he quickly killed.
> And, having got the keys out of the door, he opened it and went out, with
> his keeper. The said knights who had come to kill him, seeing that he had
> thus fled, and fearing the indignation of the Queen, for fear of their
> lives, thought to put that aforesaid porter in a chest, his heart having
> been extracted and maliciously presented to the Queen, as if they were the
> heart and body of your father; and, as the body of the King, the said
> was buried at Gloucester. After he had escaped from the prison of the
> aforesaid castle, he was received at Corte Castle together with his
> companion, who had guarded him in prison, by Lord Thomas, the castellan of
> the said castle, without the knowledge of Lord John Maltravers, lord of
> said Thomas, in which castle he remained secretly for a year and a half.
> Afterwards, hearing that the Earl of Kent, for maintaining that he was
> alive, had been beheaded, he took a ship with his said keeper and, with
> consent and counsel of the said Thomas, who had received him, crossed into
> Ireland, where he remained for nine months. Afterwards, fearing lest he be
> recognised there, and having taken the habit of a hermit, he came back to
> England and proceeded to the port of Sandwich, and in the same habit
> the sea to Sluys.
> Afterwards, he turned his steps in Normandy, and from Normandy, as many
> crossing through Languedoc, he came to Avignon, where he gave a florin to
> Papal servant and sent, by the same servant, a note to Pope John. The Pope
> summoned him and kept him secretly and honourably for more than fifteen
> days. Finally, after various deliberations, all things having been
> considered, and after receiving permission to depart, he went to Paris,
> from Paris to Brabant, and from Brabant to Cologne, so that, out of
> devotion, he might see the [shrine of] the Three Kings. And, leaving
> Cologne, he crossed over Germany and headed for Milan in Lombardy.
> In Milan, he entered a certain hermitage in the castle of Milasci
> in which hermitage he remained for two and a half years; and because war
> overran the said castle, he moved to the castle of Cecima in another
> hermitage of the diocese of Pavia in Lombardy. And he remained in this
> hermitage for two years or thereabouts, always the recluse, doing penance
> praying God for you and other sinners. In testimony of which I have caused
> my seal to be affixed for the consideration of Your Highness.
> Your Manuele de Fieschi, notary of the Lord Pope, your devoted servant."
> As throughout this exchange, if Leo wants to defend Manuele de Fieschi's
> letter which was ostensibly written to curry the favor of Edward III, then
> the Burden of Proof is on him.
> But he demurs from doing that -- and runs for the tall grass.
> No Surprises There...
> Leo is a mere cataloguer and compiler of names and "biographies" of
> historical figures with scant knowledge of how to parse, analyze and
> critique said lists of names and factoids into a coherent historical
> Lux et Veritas et Libertas
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