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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2007-09 > 1189196285


From: David <>
Subject: Re: Duke of Buccleuch Dies
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 13:18:05 -0700
References: <1188922359.776640.75360@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com><1189109280.428002.179550@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com><LmZDi.311$YE3.666@eagle.america.net><46e0e321$0$5080$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr><ZRaEi.38114$ph7.13097@newsfe5-win.ntli.net><46e14d44$0$25927$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr><1QcEi.45712$S91.12211@newsfe7-win.ntli.net><46e166dd$0$27413$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr><dafEi.13505$6u5.1669@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net><46e186ff$0$25909$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>
In-Reply-To: <46e186ff$0$25909$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>


On Sep 7, 12:14 pm, "Normandy" <> wrote:
> "John Briggs" <> a écrit dans le message de news:
> dafEi.13505$...
>
> > Normandy wrote:
> >> "a.spencer3" <> a écrit dans le message de
> >>news: 1QcEi.45712$S91.12__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...__END_MASK_i?a63jfAD$...
>
> >>> "Normandy" <> wrote in message
> >>>news:46e14d44$0$25927$...
>
> >>>> "a.spencer3" <> a écrit dans le message de
> >>>>news: ZRaEi.38114$ph7.13__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...__END_MASK_i?a63jfAD$...
>
> >>>>> "Normandy" <> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:46e0e321$0$5080$...
>
> >>>>>> "D. Spencer Hines" <> a écrit dans le
> >>>>>> message denews: LmZDi.311$YE3.__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...__END_MASK_i?a63jfAD$...
> >>>>>>> So, a relative of Cousin Diana...
>
> >>>>>>> With a bastard descent from Charles II.
>
> >>>>>>> DSH
>
> >>>>>> How closely were you related to 'Cousin Diana'? How closely was
> >>>>>> the late Duke of Buccleuch related to Diana? How closely are you
> >>>>>> related to that
> >>>>>> family?
>
> >>>>> Probably even further away than are we Spencers, by the distance
> >>>>> between
> >>>>> Surrey & Hawaii, which must be as far away as one can be, thank
> >>>>> goodness. Surreyman
>
> >>>> Always been interested in where names came from. Looked up Spencer
> >>>> "In a castle a chamberlain was an important official. The surname
> >>>> Chambers comes
> >>>> from the same source, a man who looked after the king's or a
> >>>> noble's private chambers. The man who dispensed stores was a
> >>>> spencer. Other officials were
> >>>> the parker who looked after the game park and the warriner who
> >>>> looked after rabbit warrens. From him we get the surname Warner.
> >>>> The reeve was an important official in a Medieval village. Bailey
> >>>> is a corruption of bailiff, another important official
>
> >>>>http://www.localhistories.org/surnames.html
>
> >>>> Normandy
>
> >>> Yep, but the first de Spenser in the UK, I think, was also a
> >>> 'steward' in the sense of being a right hand man of William I (but
> >>> after the Conquest). A family with many consequent beheadings for
> >>> treason, castle-buildings and banishments - they were an odd lot.
> >>> Our branch came down through whichever lot were Lords of the Manor of
> >>> Wimbledon, so I had the benefit of being 'Spencer of Spencer Hill'
> >>> when living in Wimbledon as a kid!!
> >>> And another lot (or maybe the same) were, coincidentally, Lords of
> >>> the Manor
> >>> from 1272 of my current home area. But these were largely absent
> >>> LOMs out here, also including Edward the Confessor and the Beauforts.
> >>> However, it's all inevitably very convoluted and from whichever side
> >>> of the
> >>> blanket.
> >>> Something I must get into better when I retire properly!
>
> >>> Surreyman
>
> >> The Falaise Roll records a d'spencer but the Caen table does not. Since
> >> William sailed from Falaise I would think that more accurate.
> >> The Churchills claimed descent from the companion of William the
> >> Conqueror.by way of d'Spencer down to Sir John Spencer who had
> >> flourished as a grazier in Surry on rented property. Sir John becmae
> >> a Lord of the Manor. Whilst the roll at Falaise does not capitalise
> >> d'spencer by the time Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill was born the
> >> 's' had long been capitalised.
>
> > No, no, no - 'Despencer' is just the official who dispenses, food etc,
> > i.e. the Butler. Every household would have one, and it was a
> > particularly important function - that is why it became a surname.
> > --
> > John Briggs
>
> If you look above the name come from "The man who dispensed stores was a
> spencer" The roll at Falaise says d'spencer. Is the breath mark a
> replacement for the E in the time of William?

No, and the Falaise roll quoted above says "le Despensier", not
"d'spencer". A form that doesn't exist doesn't need to be explained.


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