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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2007-09 > 1190367195


From: Douglas Richardson <>
Subject: Re: I'll bet you a ham sandwich
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 02:33:15 -0700
References: <ayTHi.191$H_5.1335@eagle.america.net><1190222409.732463.159080@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com><mailman.2528.1190228313.7287.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com><1190317691.383812.25520@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com><mailman.2583.1190320098.7287.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com><1190324800.306579.227460@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com><1190335432.483609.15100@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com><1190351722.186896.163960@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com><1190364037.274659.270790@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <1190364037.274659.270790@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>


Modern historians use Peter as a standardized name form for Englishmen
except in rare instances such as Piers de Gavaston and Geoffrey Fitz
Piers. They handle these individuals differently because these men
are famous in their own right and their traditional name forms are
known to many people. Even so, Geoffrey Fitz Piers is starting to
appear regularly in the literature as Geoffrey Fitz Peter. My guess
is that it will probably take another century to evolve Piers de
Gavaston into Peter de Gavaston in the literature. Other than those
exceptions, historians are using Peter instead of Piers in most major
works. I won't say all, as there are always exceptions.

The movement towards the standardization and modernization of name
forms has been going on a long time. I didn't invent this convention,
but I do agree with it. It certainly saves a lot of confusion. Among
other things, Latin name forms have all but been replaced by
vernacular forms in the modern literature, except for rare given names
such as Bogo or Ebulo. There are also a few other hangovers such as
the ever popular Latin form Matilda.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

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