GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Archives

Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2007-09 > 1190404352


From: Tim <>
Subject: Re: Peter or Piers?
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:52:32 -0700
References: <mailman.2599.1190366271.7287.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2599.1190366271.7287.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>


On Sep 21, 5:16 am, "Peter G R Howarth" <>
wrote:
> When I worked in a bilingual community in this country, my name was
> pronounced Peeter by anyone speaking English and Payter by anyone speaking
> German, even if the same person spoke to me. Similarly, in the South
> Tyrol/Alto Adige/Südtirol, my name is always Pietro to Italian speakers and
> 'Payter' to German speakers. As far as I am concerned, all three of these
> names are 'correct'. However, when writing my official name, for example in
> a genealogy, I use the version on my birth certificate. In the same way, my
> daughter is always called Katie within the family, and to everyone else she
> is Cat. However, when writing her official name she uses Catherine. It
> seems to me that this is standard practice. Different names, all of them
> 'correct', can be appropriate in different circumstances.
>
> In the Middle Ages, the second husband of Margaret of Lancaster, daughter of
> Henry of Grosmont, became successively (i) Wilhelm, Herzog von
> Bayern-Straubing, (ii) Willem, graaf van Holland, Zeeland en Friesland,
> (iii) Guillaume, comte de Hainault, and (iv) William, Earl of Leicester. It
> is not surprising that he went mad by the age of 24! In amongst this
> multiplicity of spoken languages, there was the single, universal language
> for written records, Latin. Douglas Richardson has drawn attention to the
> use of seals to establish someone's 'correct' name. Since all mediaeval
> seals used Latin for their owners' official names and titles, it would seem
> that Latin is therefore the most appropriate language for them in
> genealogies.
>
> The problem is that nowadays comparatively few people would recognise names
> or titles in Latin. We are therefore reduced to using a less appropriate
> language, possibly English as a modern lingua franca, or perhaps some
> language that we think the individual might have spoken, or even a version
> we intuit as being the latest fashion, even though we accept that none of
> them was in fact the 'official' version.
>
> German, Dutch, Italian and French genealogists seem to have no problem using
> their own language for foreign names and titles. I too use the traditional
> English versions that I was brought up on, but I would not dream of telling
> others, who choose a different alternative to Latin, that they are wrong, or
> even try to influence what they do, provided I can understand which person
> they mean.
>
> Petrus/Piers/Peter G R Howarth

Now that the Ukraine is an independent nation we will have to accustom
ourselves to using the Ukrainian name forms for Ukrainian history
rather than the traditional, more familiar Russian forms. Some
examples are Volodymyr for Vladimir, Olyh for Oleg, Ihor for Igor,
etc. In the U.S.A., where there's been a recent influx of Russian and
Ukrainian immigrants, both forms will exist simultaneously. Charles
and Carl have existed simultaneously for many years and many people
are unaware that they are actually forms of the same name. I think in
the past it was traditional for immigrants to adopt the anglicized
version of their names but in recent years many immigrants are
choosing to retain the name they were given at birth. For example,
immigrants from Eastern Europe now seem to be retaining "Pyotr"
instead of anglicizing it to "Peter". It all seems to be part of
cultural diversity.


This thread: