GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2008-01 > 1201038166
From: "Peter Stewart" <>
Subject: Re: Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241),Wife of Emperor Frederick II
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:42:46 GMT
[Crosspostings removed, again.]
"Douglas Richardson" <> wrote in message
> Dear Newsgroup ~
> Another issue related to Emperor Frederick II is whether or not he had
> three or four wives.
> Two poorly documented online sources (Wikipedia and Medieval Lands)
> get confused about this,
And so plainly does the sage of SLC. What motivates this self-proclaimed
"professional" even to bother consulting "poorly documented online sources",
when there is a huge printed literature on the subject at hand, must remain
a matter of opinion. But that this futile and stupid practice does not rise
to the level of sane method that can reasonably be called a "survey" of the
"existing historical and genealogical literature" is not a matter of opinion
> saying that Emperor Frederick II had a
> mistress named "Bianca Lancia," who was "the daughter of Manfred II
> Lancia, Marquess of Busca and Bianca 'Maletta', daughter of one
> Guglielmo, whose family surname is unknown."
Her parentage has not been definitively settled. That is not news to
medieval historians. You clearly have a vast distance to cover before you
catch up with what a European schoolchild might know about these matters.
> Regarding the issue of whether or not Frederick actually married
He did. The issue is over whether or not this was a canonical marriage, and
the Church that decides such questions did not consider it to be so.
> Wikipedia waffles on this issue,
And is not alone in that....
> saying she was his "mistress and (according to some historians) wife
> of emperor Frederick II of Hohenstaufen." Emperor
> Frederick II had at least two children by Bianca (otherwise called
Not "otherwise" - these are versions of the same name. What do you think
Bianca and Blanche mean?
> namely Manfred, King of Sicily, and Anna, wife of Johannes,
> Doukas Batatzes, Emperor of Nikaia.
> In 2003 the historian, Paul Crawford, published a text which states
> that Emperor Frederick II in fact married the said Blanche, and that
> their son, Manfred, though conceived in adultery, was thereby
Manfred was 12 years old when the contentious wedding took place. It is not
actually known whether his mother was alive at the time - either way, she
was certainly on her deathbed at the time.
> Clearly Emperor Frederick II considered his marriage to Blanche valid,
> otherwise he would never have addressed Manfred [III], Marquis of
> Lancia, as his "affinis."
Equally clearly the question was not decided by Frederick, or Manfred would
not have died in battle defending his right to the kingdom his father
bequeathed to him.
> Also, if this Manfred [III] was the Emperor's brother-in-law,
> as claimed by Medieval Lands, he would likely would have been
> addressed as "frater" [i.e., brother-in-law] not "affinis."
So start researching what the relationships might actually have been,
instead of wasting time on such "poorly documented online sources".
> As for Blanche's daughter, Anna, I believe she is the Emperor's
> daughter that was contracted to marry to Hermann, Landgrave
> of Thringia, in 1238, and subsequently repudiated by him c.1239.
Her name was Constance at this time, not Anna that came with her subsequent
Byzantine marriage, and she was a child of only ca 7 years in 1238.
> In any case, it is highly unlikely that Hermann, who was an adult in
> 1237, was contracted to marry the Emperor's infant daughter by Isabel
> of England born in February 1237 as claimed by Medieval Lands. It
> would be highly unusual for a grown man to be contracted to marry an
> infant, even the Emperor's daughter.
So it's plausible that Hermann was betrothed to a ca seven-year old bastard
child but not to a legitimate one-year-old? And then it's plausible that
Ioannes Doukas Batatzes, emperor of the East in Nicaea, would seek and
accept the cast-off of a German count?
|Re: Children of Isabel of England (Died 1241),Wife of Emperor Frederick II by "Peter Stewart" <>|