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From: Douglas Richardson <>
Subject: Re: Zouche-Ingham
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 22:59:33 -0800 (PST)
References: <mailman.2599.1201322787.4586.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com> <29248883-3caf-4127-9d90-80385297dadd@z17g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> <debe0f70-e9e7-4f5c-bda6-2bbc9c4a6394@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <mailman.2647.1201393184.4586.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com><e8364928-f6b8-4902-aa9b-72b764c2e5ea@s27g2000prg.googlegroups.com>


On Jan 26, 10:50 pm, wrote:
< On Jan 26, 4:18 pm, "Patricia A. Junkin" <>
< wrote:
>
< > All,
< > We have discussed the Archbishop at length. I believe we have come
to
< > accept that Roger of Lubbesthorpe was his brother. Their father
was a
< > William to whom Millicent Monte Alto gave rights in Lubbesthorpe
in
< > 1268.
< > However, I am mystified by a comment in the DNB (1900), which
states
< > Archbishop Zouche's alluded to the fact "his parents were alive in
< > 1349." I would like to see the original of this, if we could find
it.
<
< Sheppard, in his article in TAG, says of this: "The article [in DNB
< (taf)] says that he alludes to his parents as alive in 1349. This is
< an apparent reference to the following passage in his will of that
< date;
<
< Residuum vero omnium bonorum meorum, in quibuscunque rebus et
< quorumcunque manibus existencium, volo quod remaneant sub
disposicione
< executorum meorum, ut ipsi videlicet de eisdem bonis meis ordinent,
< faciant, et disponant, ac parentes, cpnsanguineos meos et
propinquos,
< familiares et servitores meos, juxta meritum cujuslibet eorumdem
inde
< remunerent, prout animae meae saluti melius viderint expedire, et
ispi
< coram Deo voluerint respondere."
<
< He continues, "While 'parentes' does indeed mean 'parents,' it can
< also mean 'god-paretns'." The most logical godparents for this
William
< la Zouche would have been William Lord la Zouche of Haryngworth and
< his wife, with which peer he is continually associated throughout
his
< career. If indeed this reference is to his _god-parents_, then the
< inference that his natural parents were alive in 1349 can be
dropped."
<
< In light of the current reconstruction, there is a certain irony in
< the above.
<
< taf

I'm uncertain why taf cites the dated Zouche article by Walter Lee
Sheppard, F.A.S.G., as this article was deficient and quite inadequate
with respect to the parentage and ancestry of William la Zouche,
Archbishop of York. Rather, taf should be quoting from original
primary documents, if he has them, as I do.

For starters, here are some references from primary records which
concern the immediate kinsfolk of Archbishop William la Zouche:

1. Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum 6(1) (1830): 11, 13 (Archbishop
William la Zouche styled "my dear cousin" [consanguinei mei karissimi]
in 1343 by Nicholas de Cantelowe, of Ilkeston, Derbyshire).

2. Testamenta Eboracensia 1 (Surtees Soc. 4) (1836): 55-56 (abstract
of will of William la Zouche, Archbishop of York, names his brother,
Roger la Zouche, Knt.).

3. Papal Regs.: Petitions 1 (1896): 20 (Thomas de Helwell, clerk, son
of Robert de Helwell, Knt., styled "nephew" by Archbishop William),
168 (John de Helwell, clerk, styled "kinsman" of Archbishop
William).

4. National Archives Catalogue, C 143/200/14: William Moton and Joan
his wife to grant land at Latchingdon to William la Zouch, clerk, for
his life, retaining land in Oxfordshire. Essex. Oxford. 2 Edward III.
[1328]

5. National Archives Catalogue, C 143/401/3 Anketill Mallore and John
Helwell, knights, James de Kineton, clerk, and John Auncell of Pointon
to grant a messuage, land, and rent in Exton to Thomas Hogekyn,
chaplain in the chapel of St. John the Evangelist in the manor of
Exton, and his successors, the said Anketill, John, and John retaining
land in Whissendine and Exton. 6 RICHARD II.

The first reference directly implies that Archbishop William la Zouche
was the son of William la Zouche (died 1352), Lord Zouche of
Harringworth, whose mother was a Cantelowe

The second reference offers support for that identification, as
William la Zouche (died 1352), Lord Zouche of Harringworth, is known
to have had younger sons named William and Roger, both of whom were
living in 1326.

The third reference is to Thomas de Helwell, clerk, and John de
Helwell, clerk, who are called nephew and kinsman respectively of
Archbishop la Zouche. This presumably means that Archbishop la Zouche
had a sister who married Sir Robert de Helwell, Knt. To my knowledge,
these references have never been discussed by anyone before this time.

The fourth reference mentions William Moton and his wife, Joan, which
Joan was the widow of Eudes la Zouche (died 1326). Eudes la Zouche
(died 1326) was in turn the eldest son and heir apparent of William la
Zouche (died 1352), Lord Zouche of Harringworth. If the honorable Mr.
Hikaru Kitabayashi is correct, then Joan Moton would be the former
sister-in-law of Archbishop William la Zouche.

In the fifth reference, Anketil Mallory, Knt., a known relative of
Archbishop la Zouche, occurs with John de Helwell, Knt.

This matter deserves further study.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah




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