GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2008-03 > 1205193436
Subject: Re: Sir Paunettus, kinsman to Edward the Black Prince: Clue to ancestry of Paonet de Ruet?
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:57:16 -0700 (PDT)
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Okay, I had to read your reply 3 or 5 times before its meaning finally
soaked in :-/ I hope it soaked in correctly [I've had a migraine for
a week and the part of my brain not compromised by the migraine is
instead compromised by the medicine for the migraine].
So, even Froissart's editor, who supplied a conjectured pedigree for
Paon de Roet, had him as the son of Huon, son of Jean de Roet (or the
other way around); in short, no absolute big Paons ahead of him but,
as you say, as simply a nickname, it's possible. I have found a Huon
Roeulx of the big-cheese Roeulx family, but as a brother or uncle and
not as a father or grandfather.
What I continue to find odd is that this nickname peackcock/little
peacock/usher/what-have-you continued on well after he was dead and
gone, in the lands beyond his birth where nobody likely would have
remembered the big Paon to his Paonnet.
You are likely correct about my only quoting a fragment of the latin
charter. Now that I know somebody who is competent in Latin, I can
dig up the entire thing! (and there's another one, that goes on for I
think 7 pages that looks like it might concern a hereditary dispute
involving the family and intermarriages. Until I can find a competent
Latin <--> English babelfish...).
But that single phrase in that single document is, as far as I am
aware, the only document which expressly links a Paonnet de Roet to a
Giles Roeulx, and, even as such, it's only guesswork which identifies
both/either with the father of Katherine Roet Swynford. It was a
Paganus and not a Giles who was commemorated in Old St. Paul's; a
Paonnet and Giles referenced as the father of Isabel Roet; a Payne/
Paon who was spoken of in Froissart.
Kindest thanks for your insights.
On Mar 10, 12:28 am, "Peter Stewart" <> wrote:
> You are quite right about the meaning of "Egidius dictus Paonet" (the
> nominative, for the phrase that you quoted in the genitive - the original
> text may have been relating him to someone in hsi family or something he
> However, it's worth noting that examples like this usually mean just an
> alternative name commonly used by the individual, rather than an
> occupational nickname or some other kind of epithet sometimes used for him.
> The obvious derivation of Paonet is the diminutive form, "little Paon", i.e.
> a junior Paganus. If you can't eliminate this, or at least show some
> particular reason for its unlikelihood compared to other guesses, it is not
> very productive to look for more novel or outlandish explanations of the
> stated name.
> Peter Stewart