GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Archives

Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2008-03 > 1205308596


From: "Peter Stewart" <>
Subject: Re: Sir Paunettus,kinsman to Edward the Black Prince: Clue to ancestry of Paonet deRuet?
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:56:36 GMT
References: <2972780e-48db-469d-bd6e-c08aa9c02d9d@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com><5fa86348-47fe-4b10-8ae0-060ea43c2590@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com><mailman.369.1204931007.20268.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com><0ab1b80e-d687-49a2-ac00-11eb0ee3727a@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com><0xmAj.23435$421.16659@news-server.bigpond.net.au><9mt5t39s6tliim2g1gom1au0dqm26mik1e@4ax.com><cc93924a-bf56-459e-977e-9477a72b6726@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com><Cq5Bj.24092$421.9849@news-server.bigpond.net.au><34d7f89b-80a4-48df-b2c4-eebcaaa1181e@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com><23e0842b-ea96-44bb-953e-8a682b1ec63e@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com><f794acc8-ef5a-4dbf-baaa-23ff1dd2cd9a@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com><sDqBj.24419$421.9445@news-server.bigpond.net.au><f5c4620b-dd75-481d-b31b-fe6862779ff1@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com>


<> wrote in message
news:...
> Dear Peter (at al.):
>
> --Here is the text of the first bit that I have found: This is from
> one of the volumes of _Cartulaire Des Comtes de Hainaut, pp. 321-22,
> and concerns the granting of a prebend to Elizabeth, daughter of Lord
> Giles, called Paonet de Ruet. Is it significant that Elizabeth is
> "Elizabet dicte dou Ruet..." (the dou as opposed to de, I mean. I'll
> readily admit myself well and truly ignorant in Latin.) ??
>
> begin quoted text:
>
> =======================================
> "Lettres par lesquelles l'imperatrice Marguerite accorde a Elizabeth
> du Roeulx, la prebende du chapitre de Sainte-Waudru, de Mons, vacante
> par le deces de Beatrix de Wallaincourt.
>
>(27 juillet 1349, a Munich en Baviere.)

I assume this is from volume 1 (1881) of the edition by Lopold Devillers.

> Margareta, Dei gracia, Romanorum imperatrix, comitissa Hanonie,
> Hollandie, Zelandie ac demonia Frisie,

Make that "domina Frisie" (lady of Friesland). The charter is just a
standard appointment to the prebend of the chapter of Sainte-Waudru at Mons,
following the death of the previous incumbent Beatrix de Wallaincourt. This
was not hereditary - after the death of Elizabeth de Ruet it went to Jeanne
d'Ecaussines, as you found, later to Jeanne de Hrims, then to Marguerite
d'Arnemude. Family relationship had nothing to do with this succession. The
only genealogial point of note in the charter of Margaret for this
discussion is

> nobili adolescentule Elizabet dicte dou Ruet domini E[g]idii dicti
> Paonet de Ruet filie

"to the young noblewoman Elizabeth called du Ruet, daughter of Gilles called
Paonet de Ruet".

There is no definite significance to "dou" in this text - "du" = "de le" is
French and does not exist in Latin; its use here was evidently an error,
quite apart from the inconsistency with "de Ruet" used for her father, and
perhaps these grammatically anomalous designations were not written by a
French-speaking scribe.

The other charter quoted, Albert of Bavaria's dated 24 July 1368, is only
useful for showing when Elizabeth had recently died. There is nothing here
to help establish whether her father Gilles was the same man as Katherine's
father Paon, or to prove beyond question that either of them belonged to the
family of Le Roeulx.

Peter Stewart


This thread: