Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2008-04 > 1208156891

From: "Leo van de Pas" <>
Subject: Fw: Fw: Fw: Fw: C.P. Addition: Marriage Date of Humphrey,Duke of Gloucester, and Jacobe/Jaque of Hainault
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:08:11 +1000

----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <>
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: Fw: C.P. Addition: Marriage Date of Humphrey, Duke of
Gloucester, and Jacobe/Jaque of Hainault

> Leo says Duchess Jacobe/Jacque was never styled "Duchess of Holand,"
> yet he is unable to explain why she was styled this on three different
> occasions in contemporary records which have already been posted. He
> says it never happened!
======= Talking fibs again. Supply the e-mail in which I said that it never

But the records show that Leo is wrong,
> wrong, wrong (three times no less). Now he's unable to explain why
> her second husband, John of Burgundy, was styled Duke of Hainault. He
> says that never happened either.
======= Again you are talking garbage. People can (and do) call themselves
all kinds of things. But to accept Jacoba as Duchess of Holland and Jean as
Duke of Hainault we need a charter, a charter by an authority. The authority
no doubt was the Emperor. Stop this stupid running around in circles and
supply the imperial chart that established those titles. As a trained
historian and genealogist, fully fledged in Latin you should have no trouble
quoting those.

At the moment I am wasting my time going through that Dutch book to see what
I can find there, and that is based on primary sources. No doubt you are
going to provide the primary sources establishing Jacoba as Duchess and Jean
as Duke of Hainault. I am looking forward to your erudite finds.

With best wishes
Leo van de Pas

> Is Leo simply making up history as he goes along? Does he even know
> what a contemporary record is? Or, is he so wielded to his precious
> secondary sources that he is unable to look an original record in the
> eye?
> Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
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