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From: "Leo van de Pas" <>
Subject: Re: Fw: C.P. Addition: Marriage Date of Humphrey, Duke of Gloucester,and Jacobe/Jaque of Hainault
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:30:48 +1000
References: <019701c89e6e$5f636600$0100a8c0@Toshiba><001901c89e76$20c77050$6501a8c0@user30529e8af0>


Consistency does not always apply.. Karolus Imperator Augustus was on his
coins, but did his people, using these coins, speak Latin? I have coins
showing George VI as Rex and Elizabeth II as Regina, should we therefor rush
in and change data bases accordingly?

If my own coin would be my birthcertificate, no one ever uses the three
names I was recorded with.

In history there always have been exceptions and some exceptional people
have been re-named by posterity, Charlemagne, Alfred the Great, William the
Conqueror and many more.

Most people know who Charlemagne was, for us (only a small group) to insist
on calling him Emperor Karolus, or Emperor Charles, would only cause
confusion (for some people) We should not try to re-write history.

The usage of the name Plantagenet is so ingrained, but apparently only one
person in his time used that name and we say he belongs to the House of
York, not the House of Plantagenet.

With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Foster" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: C.P. Addition: Marriage Date of Humphrey, Duke of
Gloucester,and Jacobe/Jaque of Hainault


> I've been in a back-and-forth on that one due to scholarly inconsistencies
> in another thread.
>
> To be contemporary, how about using what's on his coins, since he had a
> kingly franchise from Rome?
>
> KAROLVS IMP AVG
>
> (Karolus Imperator Augustus)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Leo van de Pas" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 3:30 PM
> Subject: Fw: Fw: C.P. Addition: Marriage Date of Humphrey, Duke of
> Gloucester,and Jacobe/Jaque of Hainault
>
>
>>f we use the reasoning of Richardson we should cease referring to
>> Charlemagne as Charlemagne and Alfred the Great as Alfred the Great, as
>> neither in their lifetime were known as such. Should we cease using the
>> term
>> Plantagent? And Gaunt? Where is there a place in Belgium called Gaunt?
>> Gent
>> and Gand yes, but Gaunt?
>>
>> Obviously Richardson has not read the message by Hans Vogels as yet. Nor
>> has
>> he Googled Jacoba van Beieren as that must really confuse him. Why is
>> there
>> no entry as Jacob van Beieren applying to the Countess (Not Duchess) of
>> Holland?
>>
>> It is time Richardson put some realism in his messages.
>> With best wishes
>> Leo van de Pas
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <>
>> Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
>> To: <>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 6:02 AM
>> Subject: Re: Fw: C.P. Addition: Marriage Date of Humphrey, Duke of
>> Gloucester, and Jacobe/Jaque of Hainault
>>
>>
>>> On Apr 14, 1:34 pm, "Leo van de Pas" <> wrote:
>>> <
>>> < Dr. Jansen stated she was baptised as Jacob, was known in French as
>>> Jaque
>>> < and that there were contemporary records calling her Jacoba. What is
>>> < misleading?
>>> <
>>> < Leo van de Pas
>>>
>>> Leo wants to know what is misleading? According to Leo's own post,
>>> Dr. Jansen said "the name Jacoba as we know her was used in
>>> comtemporary documents."
>>>
>>> Yet numerous contemporary charters which I've posted indicate that
>>> this woman was principally known in Dutch as Jacob, not Jacoba, and in
>>> French as Jaque (and related forms). Evidently this simple truth
>>> escaped Dr. Jansen. For what it is worth, I suspect Dr. Jansen wanted
>>> to fluff over the fact that this lady's name in her own life time was
>>> different than she is known today, Jacob versus Jacoba.
>>>
>>> For that matter, I have yet to find a single instance of this woman in
>>> Hainault or elsewhere as Jacqueline. Yet Ruth Putnam alleges that
>>> name form by this lady in Hainault. So she calls her Jacqueline.
>>>
>>> Would anyone want to help poor Dr. Jansen, Ruth Putnam, and Leo out of
>>> what appears to be their obvious misstatements?
>>>
>>> Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
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> 4/13/2008 1:45 PM
>
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