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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2008-06 > 1214864256


From: jonathan kirton <>
Subject: Fwd: Identity of Eleanor, wife of / Early use of labels in heraldry.
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 18:17:36 -0400
References: <CDF26F3A-7514-412A-B72B-5A28088F8BC7@sympatico.ca>


A SECOND CORRECTION: ( A major re-write, hoping that I finally have
it all right now!)

Peter, Will, and Group,

Many thanks for your inputs.

Peter,
You are absolutely correct about the arms of Sir Robert de Ros; I
was depending on my memory; I should have known better! Gules and
Argent is correct. I do apologize.

Will,
Thanks for your inputs; have now reviewed all the relevant pages in
the CPR, and have found the reference, which does indicate that John
de Kirketon had died by 3 Edward III (1329-30) (ref.: Cal. Pat. Rolls,
21 Edward III, Part II, Vol.,7, p.326) which states: "...that one
John de Kirketon in Hoyland was seized of the manor (of Sibethorpe)
and that after his death without heirs to himself the same descended
to his sisters, Margaret...., Alice...., and Joan..... " "..., on 3
Edward III (1329-30), the said John son of Ralph Chaumpeneys and
Margaret, his wife, acknowledged....", an event which presumably
could only have taken place after John de Kirketon's death.

This all relates to the cases pertaining to the wind-up of Sibthorpe
Manor, as related in "Pedigrees from the Plea Rolls", p.55: "De
Banco, Mich. 20 Edward III (1347), no. 164. Notts.---John, son of
Ralph de Chaumpeney of Quappelade and Margaret his wife, and Fulk
Everard of Sutton, the Blake (sic) , and Alice his wife, sued Thomas
de Sibethorpe, Parson of the church of Bekingham, for the manor of
Sibethorpe, by writ of right in the Lords Court, and Stephen Walys,
the capital lord, had remitted the writ into the King's Court."
On page 55 is shown a pedigree, which, I suspect is not quite
correct, as it begins with "Alexander Bozon of Kirketon in Hoyland,
Temp. K. Richard." (King Richard I was killed in 1199, probably
before Sir Alexander de Kirketon was born.) So, I will add
here a new pedigree, based largely on CPR, 22 Edward III, Part 1,
Vol. 8, page 53, dated 12 Feb., 1348, with any known additions:-
The plaintiffs stated that Ralph de Sancto Paulo, their ancestor, was
seized of the Manor of Sibethorpe in the time of King Richard, and
that from him the right therein descended to Dionisia, his daughter
and heir, who afterwards married Alexander Bozon of Kirketon in
Hoyland, knight, and had issue Ralph, to whom the inheritance
descended. Ralph must have been born circa 1225, and married his
wife, Alice, circa 1250.
Sir Ralph de Kirketon, Knight, also had a sister, Isabel de Kirketon,
who, some time after his father's death in 1285, presumably, Sir Ralph
gave in marriage to Sir William de Staunton of Scarthorpe and Silkeby,
co. Notts., (ref.: " History of the Commoners", Burke, Vol. 1, p. 257).
The same Sir William de Staunton, who died in 1326, and his own son,
William, having died within his father's lifetime, was succeeded as his
heir by his grandson, Sir Geoffrey de Staunton. (ref.: "The
Antiquities of
Nottinghamshire" (1797) by Thoroton, sub Newark Hundred, p. 307-8;
ref. also three emails to Gen-Med from Michael Andrews-Reading of
10 Feb., 2008) "Ralph de Kirketon, knight, gave his sister Isabel to Sir
William de Staunton in free-marriage, with all his lands in Kilvington
and Wilberdeston, together with the right of patronage of the church
of Kilvington." This indicates that the father of Sir Ralph and Isabel
had died before the time of the marriage. It is clear that Thoroton
(p.321) certainly believed that Sir Ralph was the son of Sir Alexander
de Kirketon.

Ralph himself died in 1303, stated to have died s,p., leaving his
younger (half?) brother, Hugh de Kirketon as his male heir, although
his wife, Alice was still living until after 1329-30, and evidently
retained
certain rights, as the then lady of the Manor of Sibethorpe (CPR, Vol.7,
pages 327& 328), "who held the same by the inheritance of John de
Kirketon" (her husband's (half?) brother's grandson), son of Simon de
Kirketon, son of Hugh de Kirketon. So Dame Alice evidently retained
certain rights for her lifetime from this last John de Kirketon, who had
died by 1329-30.
Be these date estimates as they may, the case in the King's Court
dragged on from Feb., 1347 until at least Feb., 1348, and may have
been quite notorious. For my purposes the results of the case(s) do
not really matter.

I suspect that Thomas Jenkyn's Book of Coats of Arms, circa 1450, was
not like a Roll of Arms, but was a simple record, in an historical,
or record keeping sense, of coats of arms which the author had
recorded and collected together. Even though the use by Sir Rauf de
Kirketon of his coat of arms, without the difference of a label, only
lasted from 1285 until 1303, the facts of the long running court cases
in 1347-8 in connection with the Manor of Sibethorpe, may well have
produced an interest in Sir Rauf's coat of arms, even as late as about
100 years later, and that Jenkyn was indeed addressing the arms of
the same Sir Ralph / Rauf, the son of Sir Alexander de Kirketon

My guess is that when Sir William de Neve came to put together his
book some 50 years later again, he simply repeated what Jenkyn had
already shown.

Jonathan


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