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From: "Peter G R Howarth" <>
Subject: RE: Sir Edward Clere (1536-1606): a granddaughter not mentioned in_PA_
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 12:31:54 +0100
References: <mailman.377.1220572957.11004.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com><80e5a7af-0ce1-40da-9302-e3dad63f1f24@p31g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <80e5a7af-0ce1-40da-9302-e3dad63f1f24@p31g2000prf.googlegroups.com>


Douglas Richardson 05 September 2008 05:20 wrote:

>Dear Tony ~
>
>As it turns out, there are TWO registered copies of the will of Sir
>Edward Clere proved in 1606. One was recorded with the Prerogative
>Court of Canterbury, as 99 Stafforde, which is the copy you have seen
>and quoted. The other copy was recorded in State Papers, Domestic
>Series, vol. 13, No. 54.
>
>Fortunately for us, abstracts of BOTH registered copies are presented
>in the book, The Visitation of Norfolk in the Year 1563 taken by
>William Harvey, Clarenceux King of Arms, edited by Brig.-General
>Bulwer, Volume II, published in 1895, pages 326-327.
>
>In the first registered copy of Sir Edward Clere's will recorded in
>the Prerogative Court of Canterbury, the will evidently refers to
>three Gilbert granddaughters as follows:
>
> "to the advancement in marriage of Cleere Gilbert, my
>grandchild ..."
>
> "an annuity of 100 marks to be divided between Katherine and
>Temperance, the daughters of my daughter Gilbert ..."
>
>However, in the second registered copy taken from the State Papers,
>Katherine Gilbert's name disappears. She is instead called Catherine
>Clere. Here are the same two bequests:
>
> "advancement in marriage of Catherine Clere"
>
> "advancement in marriage of my grandchildren Clere, and Te'pance [?
>Temperance] the daughters of my daughter Gilbert."
>
>A copy of the abstracts of the two registered copies of Sir Edward
>Clere's will may be viewed online on pages 326 and 327 at the
>following weblink:
>
>http://patriot.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/FHMedieval&CISOPTR=8
>723&REC=16
>
>So, it would seem that Sir Edward Clere had only two Gilbert
>granddaughters, Clere (or Cleere) and Temperance, both of whom can be
>vouched from other sources, and no granddaughter named Katherine
>Gilbert.
>
>I should add that the problem of the two registered copies of this
>will and the confusion about the name, Katherine, is duly noted in my
>book, Plantagenet Ancestry (2004), under the Alsop account,
>Generation 19.
>
>Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
>

A very interesting piece of textual analysis. Did Sir Edward make two
wills, or is one just a copy of the other (with the possibility of copyist's
errors)? And you do not really explain why you prefer the version preserved
among State Papers to that filed at the Prerogative Court of Canterbury.

>From what you have set out above, the version with three granddaughters
looks the more likely. Otherwise, why should Catherine/Clere have received
two bequests to advance her marriage and Temperance only one? Similarly,
Catherine's name appears against an individual bequest in both versions and
yet you want to ignore her merely because you have not found her in any
other record. I do not follow that line of argument. For example, perhaps
she died very soon after her grandfather, or the records of her later life
have been lost, or you happen not to have looked in the right places, or
whatever.

As a matter of interest, what wording do you think Sir Edward actually put
in his will? And from that, how might these two different versions have
arisen?

Peter G R Howarth

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