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From: Douglas Richardson <>
Subject: Re: Sir John de Mowbray's kinswoman, Lady Clemence de Vesci
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 07:23:59 -0800 (PST)
References: <ee092182-2e99-4f67-80e0-d92bb05fa625@w1g2000prm.googlegroups.com><5322899c-a7ac-45cf-9245-5812bdb8a033@40g2000prx.googlegroups.com> <13e1dfe6-06db-4767-9c49-637ed04ac514@m22g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>


Dear John ~

Thank you for your good post. Much appreciated.

Please get back to us when you've heard from Doug Thompson regarding
the name of the first wife of William de Brewes, 2nd Lord Brewes. I'd
be interested in knowing his documentation for her name.

Besides Lady Clemence de Vescy, my file notes indicate there was yet
another Beaumont relative in England. I find that Lady Clemence's
aunt, Isabel de Beaumont, wife of John de Vescy the elder, referred to
Nicholas (or Colin) de Purle[y] as her 'kinsman" [nepotis] [Reference:
Byerly & Byerly, Records of the Wardrobe and Household, 1286–1289
(1986): 243, 258].

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah





On Jan 15, 5:03 am, "John P. Ravilious" <> wrote:
> On Jan 14, 8:08 pm, Douglas Richardson <> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Dear Newsgroup ~
>
> > John Ravilious has reminded me privately that John de Mowbray's
> > maternal Brewes grandmother is supposed to be named Agnes.   However,
> > I've never seen the evidence which supports that name.
>
> > When John  has a moment, perhaps he would be so kind as to post the
> > evidence confirming that the first wife of William de Brewes, 2nd Lord
> > Brewes, was named Agnes.
>
> > If she was named Agnes, it might suggest that she was descended from
> > Louis de Brienne, Vicomte of Beaumont (living 1297), and his wife,
> > Agnès de Beaumont (living 1311), which couple were the maternal
> > grandparents of Lady Clemence de Vesci.  If so, this would make Lady
> > Clemence de Vesci a first cousin once removed to Sir John de Mowbray,
> > which seems reasonable enough to me.  Louis de Brienne and Agnès de
> > Beaumont had at least three children who came to England, and at least
> > one granddaughter, Clemence de Vesci herself.
>
> > Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
>
> ==============
>
> Dear Doug,
>
>      Doug Thompson's "Braose" website is the source I have at present
> for Agnes' name.  I'll write Doug and ask him if the evidence for same
> can be posted.  For interested readers, the website is located at
>
>      http://freespace.virgin.net/doug.thompson/BraoseWeb/family/home.html
>
>      As to the issue of Louis de Brienne and Agnes de Beaumont, I
> think chronology would not permit William de Braose's wife to be their
> granddaughter.  Perhaps a connection on the Beaumont side......?
>
>      Cheers,
>
>                              John



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