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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2009-09 > 1251930481


From: "Patricia A. Junkin" <>
Subject: Re: Mary de Bohun,the missing 4th daughter of Humphrey de Bohun (died 1275),Earl of Hereford and Essex
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 17:28:01 -0500
References: <6145c3ff-2c1d-4d69-aace-4d81f1a4d88c@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com><mailman.307.1251593183.15794.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com><006c26c9-8aac-4a4b-8b43-544f10e0adbd@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com><mailman.340.1251678289.15794.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com><9261ae71-21b3-4628-88d6-f5e15c2334cf@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com><45630511-f339-40be-8e04-f0600df244b2@p36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com><3321f29d-e37d-4d59-aac0-6356eaba8e97@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com><6fcf5979-2f48-4732-abc8-aa3cc90937a0@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com><mailman.3.1251841658.3398.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com><0d9e0b51-914e-4184-a39d-f62c30f5d2a4@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com><7b024ebb-666f-4068-a45d-daaa5f005540@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com><1%pnm.52102$gY4.27793@newsfe08.ams2><79cbbf9f-0596-4d48-9e20-11c89af058c9@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com><13a6fd3b-53bb-4295-a19d-b01a5ea4b60b@x37g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <13a6fd3b-53bb-4295-a19d-b01a5ea4b60b@x37g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>


Most of my references refer to this William as William la (or le)
Zouche Mortimer. His brother Hugh as Hugh de Mortimer. In a 1338 Quare
impedit, William is misidentified as Walter but the form used is
Walter le Zouche Mortimer.
This may be of no help but I seem to have a consistent naming.
Pat

On Sep 2, 2009, at 4:55 PM, Doug wrote:

> On 2 Sep, 20:30, wrote:
>> On Sep 2, 2:26 am, "Doug Thompson" <> wrote:
>>
>> < Neither usage can be condenmned as incorrect. Genealogical
>> authorities such
>> < as Weiss and Faris use the "de" as do most modern historians so I
>> would not
>> < regard this as an indication of the lack of scholarship of the
>> Wikepedia
>> < author.
>> <
>> < Doug Thompson
>>
>> Except that William la Zouche Mortimer himself condemned the other
>> form. At one point he stated that a writ addressed to him was
>> invalid as it did not use the correct form of his name which he said
>> was "la Zouche Mortimer."
>>
>> The same is still true today. If a writ was addressed to you as
>> David
>> Thomson, it would be totally invalid.
>>
>> Accuracy in legal matters counted back in medieval times, just as it
>> does today. I should think that accuracy should also matter to you
>> in genealogical matters.
>>
>> If you need it, here is another reference to him being called
>> "William
>> la Zouche Mortimer":
>>
>> Papal Regs.: Letters 2 (1895): 394.
>>
>> This may be viewed at the following weblink:
>>
>> http://books.google.com/books?id=FNoLAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA394&dq=%22William
>> +...
>>
>> Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
>
> That's an interesting point Douglas. But it was a common ploy in
> medieval (and modern) times to bring up a supposed fault in an address
> to invalidate a writ. The event actually shows that he was commonly
> addressed as William la Zouche de Mortimer (whether he liked it or
> not!). Besides the instances in the fine rolls, the close rolls
> regularly refer to him as William la Zouche de Mortimer, so, since
> that is the way he was addressed by the king, he probably had to
> accept it!
>
> The main point is that there is no such thing as a corrrect name for a
> medieval person; they were referred to in many ways in different
> documents and we need to recognise all of them as the same person.
>
> The way you choose to refer to a particular person in your files is a
> matter for your personal choice and it is sometimes interesting to
> hear your reasons for your choice, but it is not necessary to try to
> impose your idiosyncratic choices on others, especially when you are
> the one out of step with the great majority of writers.
>
> It would be interesting to know from the assertion you make whether he
> actually asked to be addressed as "William"? Or did he use another
> form of the name? Can you give a reference. (No citation - no weblink
> but I decided not to ignore it!)
>
> Regards
>
> Doug Thompson
>
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