Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2009-11 > 1257621701

From: "M.Sjostrom" <>
Subject: Halcro in Orkney
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 11:21:41 -0800 (PST)

It is pretty impossible to have a DNA testing which would show their descent (or lack thereof) from the royal family of Denmark.

Namely, my hypothesis is that this particular family legend may derive its root from Ingeborg Valdemarsdatter,
who was illegitimate DAUGHTER of king Valdemar IV.

Valdemar IV certainly did not convey his Y DNA to any of his daughters - because that's against basic biology.
And those daughters' mitochodrial DNA depends fully on their mothers, they simply cannot have king Valdemar's mt dna.
So, both real dna testing approaches are impossible, already because of the basic setting.

Of course, the family after a century or more, MAY have made an unwarrated claim of descent
- or, what I have observed to been often a case, confused a real cognatic descent into a claim of agnatic descent.
Because, people (who are just human, and have certain tendencies due to that) -and particularly people of military class, like these squires no doubt were- seem to think in a tunnel where a descent is a male-line descent.
IF there was around in 1500s a family tradition that they descend from kings of Denmark,
that could rather (and more plausibly) been a cognatic descent from a bastard daughter of a king of Denmark - who is indicated to have married to that island
rather than a male-line descent from any king of Denmark (seeing particularly that in no time in history, there islands belonged to any king of Denmark before the childless Olav became their ruler in 1380 and was succeeded by his childless cousin Eric in c1388 - there should not be any easy mechanism for a danish royal son to settle to Orkneys.... in any right and plausible time frame)

IF that Ingeborg Valdemarsdatter (whose marriage apparently would have been in around 1370s) had at all progeny to our days,
and as she was married in squirearchy of Orkneys,
then quite a bunch of Orkneys-Shetlands squirearchy in the year 1600 are BOUND to have descended from her.
Two hundred years makes a lot of spread of progeny, and her issue (if it existed) really had not so much likelihood to marry anything else than just (other) squires in Orkneys.

I remind that:
literature tells that a younger brother of Heinrek Sinklar, jarl of Orkney and laird of Rosslin, married the royal bastard Ingeborg, illegitimate daughter of king Valdemar IV of Denmark, the marriage taking place in 1370s-1380s

I am not saying that this likelihood that they descend from said ingeborg, is a genealogically valid proof - as opposed to validity in fields like anthropology....
I am just saying that this COULD been the kernel in that family tradition.


by the way, any Halcro descending from king James V,
obviously descends directly from the Royal Family of Denmark -
because James V's grandmother was Margret of Norway and Denmark, herself daughter of Christiern I, 'hereditary' king of Norway, elected king of Swedes and Goths, and elected king of Danes, Vends etc; by his wife Dorte of Brandenburg, herself dowager queen of Denmark etc;
that Christiern being a lineal descendant of king Eric V of Denmark, of king Haakon V of Norway, of king Magnus III of Sweden, and of king Valdemar I of Sweden, among others.
Because king Christiern I well-documentedly reigned over the kingdom of Denmark as its crowned and anointed king, his daughter's descendants certainly descend from the 'Royal Family of Denmark'

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