Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2009-12 > 1262308596

From: wjhonson <>
Subject: Re: Butlers of Ireland, a Possible Descent from Kings of Wessex
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 17:16:36 -0800 (PST)
References: <>

On Dec 31, 4:48 pm, Michael o Hearn <>

> I tend to agree that there may have been at least one additional generation.  Here are some more details from Smith-Tilton Genealogy:
> Haloise de GUINES
> F, b. c 950
> Dau. of Rodolph, count of Guynes and Boulogne, by
> Roselle de Saint-Paul; m. Ansgothus Cripinus; mother of Herluin,
> Gilbert Crispin, Odo, Roger, and Rollo/Rolf. [Falaise Roll, p. 67]
> Gilbert
> Crispin names Herluin's father Ansgot of Danish origin and his mother
> Héloise, a relative of the dukes of Flanders. Héloise was said to have
> been the granddau. of the count St. Paul, probably Herbert (d. 951),
> obscure bro. of Baldwin III, count of Flanders, descended from the
> kings of Italy, Charlemagne and Alfred the Great. [Falaise Roll, p. 150]
> Hesila CRISPIN
> F, b. c 1020, d. a 1086
> Dau. of Gilbert Crispin I, baron of Tillieres; m.1. William Malet and
> had several children; m.2. Alured de Lincoln. [Falaise Roll, p. 27, 43.
> 127-8]
> Another possibility would be Strongbow's descent from Gilbert Crispin Count de Brienne and his wife Gunnora d'Anou. 

If by "Smith-Tilton Genealogy" you are referring to this

where they use as their source this
A book called "Falaise Roll" where they write biographies for each
person inscribed on the Falaise Roll (which is just a list of names).

They don't know what they're talking about. It's just dreaming.

Baldric married the niece of Gilbert, and their daughter certainly did
not marry her second cousin! At any rate, it's a confused attempt to
try to explain why her husband is called Gilbert Crispin, when the
older guy was also called Gilbert "Crispin". But that doesn't work.
It's just hand-waving to fill in a gap we don't know, and probably
can't know.

Will Johnson

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